| Description | JAMES HAY interview at his home, 67 Fountainhall Road, Aberdeen on Monday 17th October, 2016. Interviewer Eric Crockart. Summary by Eric Crockart.
2 sessions were recorded during the day on a Zoom H6 digital recorder. Interviewee and Interviewer wore Rode Lavalier lapel microphones. Interviewee is recorded on the left stereo channel, and interviewer is recorded on the right stereo channel. Indicative timings in the summary are given in (hour:minute:second) format.
SESSION 1.
(0:00:00) JAMES TAYLOR CANTLAY HAY (Jimmy) born 13th June 1935 in Huntly, Aberdeenshire. Family background farming, farm servants. Moved at age One to Rothmaise farm beside Colpy. Late 1939 to early 1940 moved to Cairnwell Farm at Portlethen. Went to school in Portlethen for most of (Second World) War, in 1944 moved to Maryculter, went to Banchory Academy and stayed there till he left in 1952. Went to Aberdeen University to do Science. Got through Intermediate Honours Physics, found it boring, lecturers not inspiring. Having encountered Geology in first year, went back with two others from that Physics course and did Geology. Did Honours Geology, graduated in 1957.
(0:02:17) Problem - had been flying in the Air Squadron, had planned to go into RAF for National Service. Rules changed year before he graduated - if you wanted to fly, had to sign up for three years. But when he went to recruiting office found Rules had changed again, and had to sign for seven years if wanting to fly. So decided against this and just said he would do his National Service. But they were beginning to cut back National Service, starting with graduates, so he was told he was not wanted. Had missed all the job interviews for geologists, thinking he was going into RAF. Got job as research assistant with Professor Tom Phemister , then Chair of Geology at Aberdeen University. Did that for a year, got involved in interviews in Spring following year. Went to The Hague to be interviewed by Shell, who wanted him to do PhD. But they wanted him to do it in Glasgow rather than New York, so he refused. Then faced choice between West Indian Oil Company based in Trinidad and the Iraq Petroleum Company.
(0:04:21) Impressions of oil industry before this point? Explained Geology Dept at Aberdeen University had two lecturers, Kerr Pringle and Bill Fraser, who had worked for Anglo Iranian and Burmah Oil respectively. So had about ten lectures in Petroleum Geology from Kerr Pringle and knew about oil industry and how geology was involved. So going to oil company not a concern, though all rocks in undergraduate and post-graduate career had been old and hard, no chance of oil at all, so had to move into a new area and learn quite a lot.
(0:05:40) First task? Joined Iraq Petroleum Company. Sent him on course in Derbyshire in Peak District, to look at limestones, then to do plane tabling course - explains this, and that it was done at the cliffs at Crawton. Finished up helping geologist Jock Williamson who was giving the course, retired IPC geologist - Iraq Petroleum Company. Jimmy Hay joined IPC. Supposed to be going to Qatar. But at last minute told he was going to Iraq instead.
(0:07:38) During course in Derbyshire news came that there was a revolution in Iraq on 14th July. Wondered if he would have job. Was flown to Kirkuk and posted to place called Ain Zalah, near Turkish border. Young and inexperienced. Nothing but desert where he landed, but camp itself was in hills and turned out to be quite nice. Spent year working for the Mosul Petroleum Company, part of IPC group. Explains Iraq Petroleum operated in east of country, Mosul Petroleum operated west of Tigris and south of Euphrates. In south was called Basra Petroleum Company. Relationships with local population?
(0:09:29) Chap he took over from was an Iraqi geologist, IPC had spent some time training Iraqis to come into operation. When he first went to Iraq probably 500 ex-patriate staff, mainly British. By time he left Iraq, total number of ex-pats in Iraq was down to less than 80. Iraqis had taken over running all the roles. Ex-pat staff really providing more back up support rather than running jobs themselves.
(0:10:46) Areas of his responsibility? Started as rig geologist - explains detail of this and where. Drove ten miles to well from camp. He got no time off, but there was eventually a bit of rebellion and started getting some time off. Stayed there till March 1959. Attempted coup in Mosul caused problems. Told not to communicate on radio in English - but all oilfield terms in English, so had to use them. Eventually told to shut down operations north and south of Euphrates. Went back to Ain Zalah Camp. Under curfew. Tense period. Communists attempted takeover as well, people going round with guns. Survived that, things quietened down again.
(0:14:03) It was decided to abandon two exploration wells they had been drilling. Came back to drill production wells in immediate area of Ain Zalah. Then due to be transferred to Kirkuk, more married accommodation there than at Ain Zalah. After coup some of the families went home. Talks of two or three married men in bachelor quarters and sharing a house being a "chummery" Clarifies that he himself was not married at that time - married in August 1959 in Britain. Went back out to Iraq by himself initially. Wife joined him not long after that when accommodation became available. Fairly grim time there following attempted coup - people had been hung from lamp posts. Explains this is why his wife was apologetically refused a clothes line - they were banned because they had been used to hang people in Kirkuk. Food was quite difficult. Imports curtailed. Had to smoke local cigarettes, or old Players cigarettes in round tins of 50. Recalls there was recipe book in Kirkuk using these tins as measures. Explains three basic camp areas in Kirkuk - Arrafa, K1 and Baba East and West.
(0:17:37) Did he or his wife ever feel in danger? No - because they were young. Impervious to everything. Other coups and attempted coups. Every coup date marked by a holiday. These were kept even after subsequent coups, so by end of his time there they had seven extra holidays. Leader of initial coup Abdul Karim Qasim - known by his initials AKQ or Ace King Queen - was executed on television. Various curfew times, no movement in night. Had two daughters born in UK, went to very good school in Kirkuk. His pay was not very good then, salary about £700 a year with a £300 living allowance. But living costs low in Iraq. Recalls good quality local beer, and other alcohols. But French wines not available, because of anti-French feeling. Because of Suez, anti-French and anti-English feeling, some anti-American feeling as well. Most of French had left. Some Americans still there. Gradually ex-patriates left, till by time he left Iraq at end of 1966, down to less than 80 ex-pats working in whole of Iraq.
(0:21:08) Asked about two jobs he did for IPC - 1958-63 a geologist, from 1963-66 a petroleum engineer. Explains new graduates had been stopped from coming in to the country, had to employ Iraqis. Could not bring in petroleum engineers, and did not have enough Iraqi petroleum engineers. Struggling a bit. Jimmy finished up mainly as a reservoir engineer, also doing some drilling engineering and petroleum engineering. Creating major model of giant Kirkuk Field, which produced a million barrels of oil a day. Doing very little drilling or exploration work by then. Iraq government took back areas other than actual producing fields.
(0:22:50) 1967 moved to do geology in Abu Dhabi, with family. Reason was things in Iraq getting difficult, family issues, fewer kids at the school. Moved into production geology in Abu Dhabi, and then after a year as head of geology. Same employer, as Abu Dhabi Petroleum Company part of the IPC group. Explains red line agreement done after First World War, drawn up by those then involved with Iraq Petroleum - details of those companies and percentages owned. Carved up everything outside Iran - Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Trans Jordan. Not Saudi Arabia, not Kuwait. All the stuff outside Saudi - Qatar, Trucial States including Oman, whole Arabian peninsula except Saudi was Iraq Petroleum, right round to the Hadramaut and Aden. More history of this, including involvement of Shell, Total and BP.
(0:27:33) Difference between theory of geology he had learned at university, and the reality of working for the oil industry? Developed new things - Aberdeen University geology then essentially a "hard rock degree", city does not have many sedimentary rocks around it, so most of the rocks he looked at as a student were igneous or metamorphic. So had to learn quite a lot about sedimentary types of rocks over the years - need to keep learning, the day you don't learn something is a bad day. In early days in Kirkuk developed new techniques for mapping underground reservoirs, quantifying different types of rocks. Published some works then and later on mainly structural geology. His studies in Physics at university came in useful as well. Explains in detail about what he was doing in seismic work - said the explosions involved probably helped the IRA develop bombs using diesel and fertiliser.
(0:32:03) 1967, Head of Geology for Abu Dhabi Petroleum Company - explains his responsibilities at time. Refers to some of the history of oil industry. He did not have a big team, as owners of the company were experimenting running "lean and mean". Explains make up of workforce, including their ethnic makeup. All do it yourself type stuff, interesting to compare with what happened in North Sea when he came back in 1971. In 1970, three planes were hijacked by Palestinian terrorists, and blown up at Dawson Field in Jordan. His girls were going backwards and forwards to Britain three times a year. Knew some children that had been on one of the planes.
(0:35:42) Jimmy transferred to Iraq Petroleum in London, responsible for looking after operations in Iraq, Qatar and Abu Dhabi. Family living in Aberdeen, girls at St Margaret's School as boarders. At some stage became aware Aberdeen University looking for assistant lecturer in petroleum side of things. Applied for job and got it. Prof Phemister then head of Geology had decided they needed to get involved, with oil industry appearing in Aberdeen. Jimmy was to set up courses relating to petroleum. Decided to put more petroleum geology into the final honours year, but most effort put into setting up a one year Master of Science course in Petroleum Geology, part taught and part research. Went to Aberdeen University in 1971. After a year Tom Phemister retired in 1972, he thinks, and Eric Tait took over. He and Phemister had probably been the instigators of the petroleum idea. Became obvious we did not just need petroleum geology courses, but also petroleum engineering. Government meetings - decided to create two courses, one in Scotland and one in England. Aberdeen University bid for this, process supervised by Petroleum Industry Training Board, which he thought was not the most suitable body to be looking at post-graduate stuff. Unfortunately, then head of Engineering at Aberdeen University, Prof Charlton, was opposed to getting involved in "grubby North Sea oil". Believe he may have actually lobbied UGC that Aberdeen should not have it. So Petroleum Engineering courses went to Imperial College London, and in Scotland to Heriot Watt University. Heriot Watt had no geology dept, so immediately had problems because you need to understand the rocks.
(0:39:58) So Aberdeen did not get the course, also decided they would have a Professor of Petroleum Geology at Aberdeen. Jimmy applied. Job went to Arthur Whiteman. Jimmy decided not to stay. Could not see need for two people to teach one post-graduate course and a bit of undergraduate teaching. Handed in notice, but agreed to do taught part of course and stayed on to the end of 1974. In meantime, had joined Burmah Oil - but by time he went to join Burmah, company had collapsed in the debacle at the end of 1974.
(0:40:59) Asked about the transition from the commercial world of the oil companies to the world of academe? Not a transition. Criticises attitude of some academics to industry, ivory tower attitude. Not sure he was accepted into that world. Finds it interesting that Aberdeen University, having not been that keen on oil, now starting an MSc course on decommissioning - big change.
(0:42:19) Explains why he thinks there was such a resistance to the university becoming involved in the oil industry. Recalls debate at The Debater at Aberdeen University - mentions various participants, including Tony Mackay of the Economics Dept who said their studies had indicated there would be only a few hundred jobs in Aberdeen. Assumption then was that most of the jobs would go to the Inverness area. They had not understood the oil industry at all. Also present was Sir Donald Mackay. Explains that government had been advised of this, so a lot of money put into upgrading the A9, and did nothing for Aberdeen. So all the pipe for the North Sea and the northern North Sea came by train or road to Aberdeen, then by road to Peterhead. The roads were awful. In mid-1970s remembers being at an Aberdeen Chamber of Commerce dinner, Alex Mair was chair and thinks Sir Malcolm Rifkind was Secretary of State. At the speeches Alex Mair asked the Secy of State if he was aware that between Aberdeen and Istanbul there was only 60 miles of single carriageway road? - then added that it was all between Aberdeen and Dundee. The following month work started on dualling the road. So the Economics Dept of Aberdeen University got it wrong in Jimmy's view. This was to the benefit of RGIT, Robert Gordon's Institute of Technology. They got into the engineering side of things. Drilling and mechanical and the whole range as well. Explains that when he was a student at Aberdeen, you did Civil Engineering at the university, but if you were doing Electrical or Mechanical Engineering you went to Robert Gordon's. It had changed by the time he came back in 1971, when Prof Charlton was trying to make it into "Engineering Science". But they weren't too keen on the oil business.
(0:46:52) Explains about the development of the MSc course in petroleum geology at Aberdeen University - mostly his creation. Did not get recognition for that - no idea why. Started course in 1973. Had four students, but had problem getting funding for students. Conoco gave a scholarship, Esso gave one, The Wood Group gave one, and there was a self-funding Iraqi student. They graduated in Sept 1974. Years later he was invited to a function at Aberdeen University on petroleum geology side of things. Claim then was that the first graduates were in 1975 under Prof Whiteman - a bit unfortunate for them that the Iraqi 1974 graduate turned up, there was harrumphing. But I was wiped from the record. Couldn't care less, it was their loss. It was probably Whiteman, but I don't know.
(0:48:50) Move to Burmah Oil in 1975 - at a critical time. Lot of bodies been buried over that one. Burmah had over-reached itself. Tanker business was blamed, but real reason was BP share price collapsed. Goes into detail about what happened. Labour government not helpful, Tony Wedgwood Benn the Secy of State at the Dept of Trade and Industry in particular. Jimmy got involved in discussions in 1975 to try and save as much of Burmah as possible. Mentions Chevron's February 1975 coup to have Burmah removed as operator of the Ninian Field. Jimmy transferred to Burmah Oilfield Development Ltd (BODL). Became the Thistle Field man. Mentions the unsuccessful attempts to get compensation for BP shares. Jimmy told by a board member about conversation with Wedgwood Benn about why he had just given £50 million to Chrysler "to keep Coventry open". Benn justified this because Chrysler employed 50 thousand people. The Burmah board member then pointed out that Burmah employed 65 thousand people in the UK. Dismisses Benn's diaries.
(0:54:48) Aware of involvement of Dennis Thatcher, husband of future Conservative Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, on board of Burmah? Yes. Dennis a nice guy. Jimmy did not express surprise that there was little comment about Dennis Thatcher's involvement with Burmah when his wife became Conservative Party leader in Feb 1975. Described him as "the perfect spouse of a Prime Minister" - he and his wife did not get involved in each other's business. Main problem was Nicky Williams, who had been chairman and chief executive of Burmah. He was asked to resign. Govt insisted that Alastair Downe came in from BP - he did a great job. Only bit of North Sea Burmah managed to keep was an 8% interest in the Thistle Field in the North Sea.
(0:57:50) From 1975-78 Jimmy was chief production geologist for all of Burmah. Responsible for all the well planning. To try and assess how much oil was in the ground, and then how much could be recovered. A very high recovery factor is 60% - 40% of the oil you will never get out, economically.
(0:59:32) 1978 another change in career. Gives history of this. British National Oil Corporation (BNOC) had been created in January 1976 from Burmah and NCB (National Coal Board) assets. Opened office in Glasgow. Goes into detail. Friction arising at time Jimmy was looking after Thistle. Glasgow thought they should be looking after the geology. The Thistle partners at the time were not in agreement. In the end it was decided that Jimmy being in Aberdeen running the group was the problem. Decided he would not join the exploration group in Glasgow. Was then approached by another old Burmah guy called Iqbal Shoaib who was running non-operated side of the BNOC operations. Wanted him to join him in a small group of joint venture managers to look after all the interests acquired in various fields. Mentions Fifth and Sixth Rounds of offshore licensing. In 1978 was approached by BNOC general manager in Aberdeen, Mike Kelly - ex Burmah - to see if Jimmy would be interested in job of technical manager in Aberdeen. Iqbal Shoaib was not happy, but I came back to Aberdeen in 1978 as technical manager. Iqbal Shoaib retired, Mike Kelly took over from him in Glasgow, and Jimmy became general manager of BNOC in Aberdeen.
(1:04:23) Clarifies that he had gone to Glasgow in 1977, and the connections between Burmah, BODL and BNOC. Explains why he thinks BNOC was an interesting organisation. Board a real mixture, Lord Kearton was the chairman - very sharp and effective, one of the brightest people he met. BNOC very politically influenced. Decision to be based in Glasgow was "purely political". Describes how the offices in Glasgow were established. Then de-nationalised in 1981, not very successful, in his view the share float price was set too high. Second tranche done in 1982, share price more reasonable.
(1:07:32) Jimmy explains his responsibilities in Aberdeen in 1978 - geology, petroleum engineering, reservoir engineering, production engineering, but not production. Mainly responsible for the Thistle Field. Later the Clyde Field, and Beatrice. Gives detail about these. Shell not happy about BNOC having 51% of Clyde, and Shell 49% - Shell thought they should be operating field as it was near their Fulmar Field. Explains that in 1978-79 he became Joint Venture Manager for BNOC. Explains BNOC joint ventures operated on a "Chinese wall" principle because many companies concerned with BNOC that there would be leakage of information from the operated to the non-operated side. In 1979 got another job with BNOC as Technical Manager. Explains reason for this change, which brought him back to Aberdeen. Involved everything except drilling and production. Went offshore quite a bit, and when he was General Manager. Important that people see you offshore, and he insisted that managers went offshore to "see the troops". In 1980 became General Manager for BNOC, till 1987. During that time brought Thistle on to production, got involved in planning and work on Northern Leg Pipeline. Beatrice we acquired and took over responsibility for oilfield, pipeline and terminal. Thistle feeding via Dunlin into the Brent System. Developing Clyde, planning and getting staff organised.
(1:13:31) 1981 - Britoil was created from BNOC. Explains his involvement with this. Comments again on the flotation share prices. Govt wanted rid of us, we were an embarrassment on the Public Sector Borrowing Requirement. BNOC name did not disappear, continued for some time. There was a pipeline system that ran fuel into airfields etc. That group of BNOC stayed on, there was also winding up work to do. But BNOC disappeared in terms of upstream. Acquired new chairman who built a big new office in Glasgow, which BP eventually inherited, but he thinks is now gone.
(1:16:20) 1987 - became International Manager for Britoil. Had been under pressure for a while, the sharp end and the blunt end had been having disagreements. Went to Glasgow. Had acreage already up and running in Egypt, Dubai, Thailand, Indonesia, looking at stuff in Africa and the Far East. It was felt it needed some experienced management in head office to look after all this - I was responsible for the Eastern hemisphere. Neil Campbell was the other, responsible for the Americas. Goes into further detail about international interests. Jimmy's view was that just being a North Sea company was not going to get them anywhere. As Britoil only had upstream interests, Jimmy suggested to the board that they should put in a bid for Castrol. But it wasn't taken up. I think if we had done that Britoil might have survived as a separate entity. Vulnerable to a collapse in oil price, shedding jobs, fairly traumatic period in the mid-1980s. Other companies like BP did not react in same way, so ended up with too many people.
(1:19:43) 1988 takeover of Britoil by BP. Interesting. Explains involvement of ARCO (Atlantic Richfield Company) in takeover, as a "white knight" - but ARCO eventually sold their shares to BP and that was end of Britoil. Goes into more detail about his involvement in how the two organisations would be stitched together. Went to Egypt, Dubai, Thailand and Indonesia to hand over to BP in each country. But the name of Britoil was retained for reasons including the Government's "Golden Share". Explains this allowed the govt to veto anything BP proposed - but never used the veto. Eventually BP took over the Golden Share as well. To begin with there was a separate board set up for Britoil, partly BP and partly the great and the good of Scotland. BP had made various promises when they took over Britoil, promising not to cut jobs, which caused problems later on. So Jimmy was offered the job of coming back to Aberdeen to take over operation to pull together the Britoil and BP bits, now as BP, which he accepted.
(1:24:27) Asked about taking a senior management course at Henley College in 1983 - he was told to. Had already done one with IPC, so felt it was a bit of a waste of time - but he enjoyed Henley. A propos of his Education, he mentions he was a governor of RGIT from its creation as a separate entity in 1981 until 1992. Period from 1988-1991 he was wearing several different oil industry hats, for BP Exploration, Britoil - explains this. Britoil PLC was over-arching company BP set up to retain Britoil name, its board ran BP in Aberdeen and exploration and production work across UK. He was put on to the Britoil board which meant travelling back and forwards to Glasgow. Explains his responsibilities. Mentions on shore operation at Wytch Farm in England. All the drilling and production operations. So it was all the UK onshore and offshore activity that BP had, so travelled around a fair bit.
(1:29:14) Explains that Britoil's Glasgow office was the equivalent of other oil companies in Aberdeen having London offices. When he got to BP at Dyce in Aberdeen, found it was over-manned. This is when promise about not losing jobs in Scotland....Eventually agreed we could make 600 redundant, so moved entire 600 BP Exploration jobs from London to Glasgow, to make up for the 600 we were shedding in Scotland - so could still keep "no job losses" in Scotland......don't know who gave the promise. But there were a lot of agency staff, so actual BP job losses were relatively small.
(1:31:25) How did political dimension affect outcome for Britoil? In effect created as a political entity - BNOC then Britoil. I suggested to the Board for Britoil we try to acquire a downstream company, Castrol suggestion not pursued, in 1982 I think. When mid-1980s came, in serious trouble, no buffer, shedding a few hundred of own people. Saving grace in 1984-85 preparing for Clyde Field operation - preserved people. Difficult times. Downstream can make money when oil price drops. That was our weakness, should have tried harder to become an integrated company upstream and downstream. Made us vulnerable to BP. In his view BP took them over on mistaken beliefs. Britoil had been getting rid of junk acreage. Thinks BP overpaid for Britoil - on mistaken belief Britoil had far more than they did.
(1:34:04) 1988 - year he became General Manager for UK operations for BP Exploration and a Director of Britoil - also year of Piper Alpha oil platform disaster. Explains how this was perceived and his reaction to it. Said mainly at his insistence, when they were putting in the Northern Leg Gas Pipeline, wanted a safety valve far enough away from Thistle platform so would not get roaring inferno of gas coming back at them. Shell and Conoco did the same. BP did not want safety valve for Magnus. So we stuck a safety valve on their bit of the line, just to keep ourselves away from them. After Piper Alpha and subsequent Cullen Inquiry it was obvious sub sea valves would be mandatory, put one in Magnus. That was sad thing about Piper Alpha - if they had had a sub sea safety valve on that gas line they would still be there. Knew a lot of the folks in Occidental, knew the OIM who was killed. Oxy was a slightly strange company. Had a similar incident the year before with the same valves, had coped with that, this one they hadn't. 167 lives lost. Other sad thing was standby vessel Tharos did not have the power to pump water and move by itself. Total panic. With hindsight it could have done better. Mentions meeting some of the survivors.
(1:38:31) Big changes for him post-Piper Alpha? Apart from having to fit valves on BP pipelines, no. We were already doing all the things that came out of Cullen, apart from the sub sea valves. Explains why he thinks one of the difficulties the North Sea had was that a lot of people had never worked anywhere else in world. American companies had people who had experience elsewhere, but pressure to have British people in jobs. Safety regime in North Sea as good as anywhere in world now. By end of 1990 Jimmy had gone from BP, though did not formally retire till April 1991. Did not get on with BP chief executive John Brown. Explains reasons. Jimmy went off and did other things. BP a strange organisation, massively over-manned. Had had a few rows with them early on. Contracting of drilling rigs all done in London, whereas Britoil did their own stuff. BP's steel pipe casing was bought by London, when they took over Britoil we were able to show them we were getting same quality of steel pipe at 30% less cost, and drilling rigs in some cases for half what they were paying. They had a Contract Committee who thought they were there to run contracts. Jimmy had a bit of an argument there, Contract Committees there to ensure everything done properly, not to run the contract. When Horton came in as chief executive of BP he did take action - at that stage BP had something like a hundred standing committees, and some people in London did nothing except attend committee meetings - he scrapped the lot. Difficult organisation, comparisons with civil service and military. Did change things, but not till after he left. More criticism of how BP did things and how this meant they lost people to other companies. Jimmy next approached by Ian Wood, looking at Scottish Enterprise and Grampian Enterprise. Skills analysis. SDA oil and gas team approached him to go and look at Columbia. Spent about a year in Columbia looking for opportunities there for Scottish companies. Then they asked me to look at other countries. Did virtually every country in South America for them. Did China, Far East, West Africa. DTI then became aware of what he was doing and asked him to do similar things for them. Also consulted for other organisations, including being technical adviser in legal cases.
(1:48:58) The interview with Jimmy is interrupted by arrival of the Post, and he digresses re on-going issue with his Internet Router and dealing with BT (British Telecom).
(1:51:07) Back to what he did re legal cases he had been involved in. Gives example, costs involved. Played golf, done various things for other organisations. Been retired now for seven or eight years. Got involved with Melrose Resources. Explains they are an oil company that operated in Bulgaria, Egypt and the States. Agreed to join them, but at age 70 he said he was off, because rule then was once you reached that age you had to be re-appointed as a Director every year. Was persuaded to stay another year, but meanwhile Govt changed the rules so he was back on three-year appointment. Agreed to do one more three-year stint, but said he would find a successor - explains what happened. At age 74 or 75 he was able to depart Melrose. Also felt his involvement with the oil industry was now so remote, not able to give them advice they needed. Past his sell by date. Clarifies that it was in 1977 that he ceased being a petroleum geologist and became a manager. But can have Geology as a hobby, marvellous subject. Had interesting career. The only companies he ever left were IPC and then BP, other jobs resulted from takeovers, only companies he actually joined were IPC and Burmah.
(1:55:34) Biggest issues in his career? Safety. Explains. Mentions incident when two divers killed on Thistle SALM (Single Anchor Leg Mooring) offshore loading arm. Gives detail of another incident when two divers were saved, involving diving vessel Uncle John - said it moved very slowly. Mentions saturation diving. Terrible problems with diving contractors not wanting to use ROVs (Remotely Operated Vehicles), specific threat to 2W (Wharton Williams) that they would not work again if they did not agree to use ROVs. Mentions Rick Wharton and Malcolm Williams. Eventually got to point where subsea wellheads were designed so ROVs could lock on to them. Only diving then bounce diving in Southern North Sea, air diving not saturation diving. Other aim Jimmy had was to stop using helicopters, they fly like a brick. Mentions argument he had with Alan Bristow of Bristow Helicopters, over Bristow's wish to go to single pilot operation. Jimmy refused, said he wanted two pilots up front because helicopters difficult to fly if something went wrong. He aimed to replace helicopters, got close with Bell Tilt Rotor, US Marines had contract with Bell. Explains tilt rotor has wing but big engines tilt up and lands as helicopter. In between, if engines fail it still flies. Talks about persuading Bell to put four blades on Bell 212 and 214 helicopters, because two-bladed helicopters make a terrible racket. Chinook also very noisy, refused to have anything to do with them. Got close, then Marines cancelled contract for Tilt Rotor, so nothing happened. Strangely enough come back in last two years, and Marines again looking at a Tilt Rotor. That to Jimmy was the answer for offshore - take off as a helicopter, go into flight mode, speed and range much increased. Might come yet - bit late for the North Sea. So failed in stopping using helicopters. Regret that because a lot of folk have died in helicopters - helicopters not good news, fixed wing fine.
(2:02:44) Asked about any mistakes in career that if he had time again might do differently? Never look back. Regrets get you nowhere. Long ago developed a number of philosophies - explains these. High point of career - most recent was getting Britoil operations into a very efficient operation, that took a bit of doing. Started doing same with BP, but didn't quite make it. Low point was losing his wife almost eighteen years ago. Refers to her reaction to him being removed from BP, refused to buy BP petrol. Said if someone other than John Brown had been at BP he might have stayed on. Brown had inability to delegate. Explains some more about his dispute with John Brown, and his assessment of Brown. Problems started arising when Brown took over Amoco - a strange company. Jimmy did not see them as a fit for BP, he thought Mobil would have been better. Gives his analysis of Amoco. Mentions Texas City disaster, and Macondo release of oil into the Gulf of Mexico. BP also bought ARCO, a much better fit. What has happened in Jimmy's view is that BP has become "more Amoco", so don't know what will happen to BP. Has regrets about things he did not achieve, thinks not achieving Petroleum Engineering at Aberdeen University cost the university dearly. (Asked to stop recording session at this point)
(ENDS 2:10:37)
SESSION 2
(0:00:00) Asked about impact of industrial relations on his career? Not a problem in Middle East. In North Sea never presented problems in Burmah, BNOC or Britoil. Had two TUC General Secretaries on Board of BNOC - Gavin Laird of Engineering Union, and ASTMS man Clive ? (could not remember surname). Describes approach from ASTMS about wanting an agreement at Nigg Oil Terminal - but turned out only one ASTMS member working there. Had separate agreement with Engineering workers that if there ever was an agreement there it would be with their union. Next issue with trade unions was after being taken over by BP. Forties and Magnus fields. Describes this in detail, including BP staff association. Another issue later on when offshore strikes happened in 1989-90, following on from Piper Alpha disaster. Offshore Industry Liaison Committee (OILC) and Ronnie McDonald. BP staff had odd attitude towards contractors, for some reason directly employed crane operators on platforms, affected attitude. Describes him being leant on by senior BP managers and John Brown. More detail on what happened regarding unions. Britoil did not have uniforms, could not tell who was who. BP may have had an us-and-them between BP staff and contractor staff.
(0:05:52) Explains his involvement with the Offshore Industry Training Board. Mrs Thatcher got rid of most of the training boards when she came to power, but we persuaded government that we should stay. Surprising that an oil company regarded as anti-trade union - we weren't, we just didn't have trade unions - should be doing this. Meant we were able to insist companies and contractors train people properly. Explains make up of training board. Mentions people on the board, including then Transport and General Workers Union official Mel Keenan. We got things organised. Also got involved with UKOOA - UK Offshore Operators' Association. Monthly meeting with "Chatham House rules". Also got involved with Institute of Petroleum. Explains this. Did technical work on codes of practice. Quite proud of what we achieved. Other thing outside the oil industry, persuaded by Peter Clarke, then head of Robert Gordon's Institute of Technology, to join their board. New group set up 1981, till then one board covered the school and the institute. On board for 11 years. Limits on terms of office mentioned. Can stay too long, four years long enough at anything - thinks he stayed too long in operations at Britoil in his own career, he was becoming a problem by the end.
(0:11:18) Explains why he considered he was becoming a problem. Knew more than anybody else, had been through it all. Start believing in your own ability to make decisions, need something to shake you up. Even after being a governor at RGIT was persuaded to stay on the Audit Committee. Looking at history of the Robert Gordon University and Aberdeen University, has the latter caught up in terms of relations with the oil industry? Recalls going back further that Aberdeen tried to take over RGIT. Mentions George MacNicol principal of Aberdeen, giving a fairly hard time. Jimmy thinks RGIT did things very differently, explains difference in terms of RGIT being vocational. He argued should not lose the difference between the two institutions. RGIT used to run HND (Higher National Diploma) courses, quietly dropped after they became a university. Said his argument did prevail, the two survived. When Robert Gordon's got its charter he lost case for keeping "Technology" in name. Thought dropping this might led institution in directions it should not go - in practice this has not happened. Despite severe pressures like funding for research, not teaching - thinks teaching is the important thing, knew very good teachers who were not good researchers, never progressed in career because teaching was not regarded, all about number of papers you had published.
(0:17:00) Explains why he thinks influence of oil industry on Aberdeen has been disastrous. Brought a lot of wealth, made things difficult in other areas, price of housing has made it difficult to attract staff to schools, universities and other businesses. Quite a lot of poaching of staff by the oil industry - have become a one-horse town, not good for Aberdeen. Explains about Aberdeen Beyond 2000 initiative being pushed by Scottish Development Agency (SDA). We identified six areas where we could develop, including agriculture and food, and also IT. Mentions various proposals made - getting more car parking in centre of Aberdeen, decking over Union Terrace Gardens. Secondary proposal to deck over The Green. Explains why this was thought necessary. In the end that did not go ahead, Aberdeen City Council against. One thing that did was Drilling Technology Centre at Bridge of Don, because that land was owned by Grampian Region and not the town (council). Says all this happened in mid-1980s. Now looking at same sort of things again, nothing done and Aberdeen still oil industry. Kids had far too much money, problems with drugs. Says when he graduated from Aberdeen there was no chance of him staying in city. Only people who could were if you went into teaching, medicine and law. Geology graduates from his year nearly all went abroad. It has helped the university, has made lawyers very rich. Recalls that when he and his family came back to Aberdeen in 1971, bought a house in Carlton Place for £7,000 - same price previous owners had paid for it five years earlier. That house now is probably worth £700,000 - a hundred-fold? Totally mad. Sums up by saying oil industry good for Aberdeen, yes and no - but a large No in part.
(0:23:46) Asked about oil industry impact on North-east of Scotland? Lot of entrepreneurs have done well. Example of Charlie Anderson. But a lot of companies started by people from outside, most of the ones he knows from elsewhere. Has Aberdeen established itself as centre of excellence in oil industry/offshore industry matters? It will continue for a while. Depends on oil industry being here. Finds it difficult to see it continuing on any large scale once industry runs down, that's another 30 to 40 years away. Already seen some people drifting away into other areas, with downturn this time. Talks of variations in oil price. Industry does a lot of skills training. Mentions apprentice training scheme at Aberdeen College, and problem of not being able to send 16-year-olds offshore. Aberdeen needs to start now adjusting to a future without oil being dominant.
(0:26:46) Does not think Britain has benefitted from its oil wealth. Benefitted in sense of masses of employment, most high quality technical engineering for offshore done in Birmingham area, some engineering skills in Scotland, but in general drifted towards the Midlands. All our engineering companies have largely gone now. Did Britain spend the money wisely? Mentions proposal he and Eric Tait put to (government minister) Michael Heseltine when he came back to Aberdeen University - trying to get an Institute of Technology akin to Institute Francais de Petrol, where a lot of money put in from every litre of fuel sold. Nothing came of this till later, till they set up Institute of Technology at Heriot Watt and partly at Bridge of Don here. Has managed to do something. Unemployment would have been much larger if it was not for the oil industry. So it has benefitted UK, but have not become a leader in technology. Developed some great ideas, but technology firms are all foreign. Could not persuade British firms to get involved. Believes this is because they make too much money off defence contracts. Goes into detail about why he thinks this, comparing electrical engineers who are always sub contractors and were able to cope with demands of oil industry, with civil and mechanical engineers. Issue of "Change Orders" - explains the effect this has over government contracts that may run for seven or eight years, resulting in contract changes. Oil industry in general does not do cost-plus contracts.
(0:32:17) Effect of working in oil industry as petroleum geologist, and as a senior manager, on his family life? Very great effect. Very hard on oil industry wives. Explains in detail, both when he was young and when older. Problems for his family living in Middle East. Long periods away from family.
(0:36:09) What kind of conditions did he work in and effect on his health? Talks of living in Iraq and Abu Dhabi, problems with cold, humidity and high temperatures. Drinking gallons of water in desert. Did not sweat, evaporated before getting to outer skin. Took long time for medical industry to figure out problem - it was salt. Recalls drinking salt water - better than salt tablets. Does not think living out there affected his health, but perhaps. Even when he was General Manager was in office on Christmas Day. One year nasty incident with bomb hoax.
(0:40:05) Goes on to speak about security - and falling out with a chief constable in Aberdeen whom he does not name. At height of problems in Ireland and bomb threats. Chief constable wanted to take over all communications with the platform during an incident. Jimmy refused. Explains why. Compromise in major incident, chief constable would send senior officer down to company office and communications people, and Jimmy or another senior manager would go to police communications room. Never actually happened. Recalls visits to the Beatrice platform, close to RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Kinloss, got requests for Special Services units to come and practice getting on their platforms. Dripping wet figures appearing on platform. Describes alarming technique of helicopter "flaring" to allow sudden landings on platforms. Security concerns of industry during Irish troubles. A few hoaxes offshore, but nothing serious. Gave Jimmy faith in people offshore.
(0:44:58) Explains about his wife Mary Davidson, daughter of distinguished surgeon Sidney Davidson, met her in geology department, married in 1959. Explains about their two daughters and son, what they do. Did not follow in his footsteps. First daughter Deborah. Second daughter Caroline. Son is John. (Finishes with recording session ident)
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