| Description | Interview with Mrs Ethel Smith (nee Rennie), recorded on 11 November 1993 by Myrtle Anderson-Smith with Mary Williamson
Transcript of Interview :
AS: Mrs Smith, you grew up in Boddam?
S: Yes.
AS: How common was it for girls from Boddam to go to university?
S: Not very common. When I was there I was the only one.
AS: At that time.
S: At university at that time.
AS: Had one or two gone before you, perhaps?
S: Yes, there were. But I think those who went, mostly went just to the TC. They didn't aspire to university. But, I was encouraged by my parents, of course, and also by my headmaster to go on, which I did. And I'm very thankful that I did, because I really enjoyed my time in university in Aberdeen. It was lovely.
AS: Did you consider going to any other university than Aberdeen?
S: No. In these days I think it would have been almost unheard of to think of going anywhere else except to the university nearest to your school. I think that's so.
AS: I think so. What subjects did you choose to study at university?
S: I did English and History. These were the sort of chief subjects. I also did Mathematics and Nat. Phil., and Logic, Geography.
AS: Quite a mixture. It was an MA that you did?
S: An MA, yes, an ordinary MA. Zoology - Arthur J Arthur Thomson. He was a wonderful...
AS: Can you tell us about him?
S: He was a very, very interesting lecturer and a very nice man. And I think lots of students went to his lectures just to listen to him and to learn what he had to tell us. It was all very interesting, well it was like nature study, Zoology, that he lectured in. And he was such a fine specimen of a man, such a fine gentlemanly man, and so kind to the students. He enjoyed talking to the students, I think. And we all loved him. And it was an experience to go to his lectures, and benefit from them. That's why I went.
AS: I believe he gave public lectures and broadcast a lot. Is that correct?
S: Well, of course, that was after my time. I don't think broadcasting was invented - well, just the beginning of broadcasting - when I was at university. When did it begin? 1918, or something. I was there in '25, so broadcasting was not such a common experience as it is now. He would certainly have been giving lectures on television now, of course, if he had still been with us. But, in these days that wasn't such a common experience; although lecturing outside the University, that he did, yes, because he was a very well known professor. I don't think, maybe, when we were at University, we did realise just what a famous man he was. We just loved him because he was our Professor, at our University, and we weren't thinking, perhaps, of his wider contacts. But we were very young, as it were. [But we] enjoyed it.
AS: He obviously made a big impression. Do you remember any other of your professors, or lecturers?
S: Oh, yes. I remember most of them. We had Professor Jack. That was the English professor. He was it took the first year. He was a very interesting sort of person. He was a slow lecturer. We didn't get on very quickly. He was very keen on Chaucer and he spent a lot of time on Chaucer in my first year, I remember, you know. We would say, Do you think we'll ever get on to anything except Chaucer? But I think that was one of his favourite subjects. He liked the students, though, because he used to invite us to his house, occasionally, you know, groups and so on. He was an other worldly sort of person, in a way. I remember one very funny thing that happened in his class. He was giving out exam papers, I think, or something like that, and he said to one student: "Come up and see me sometime", and the whole class laughed. He couldn't understand what the laughter was about, because he'd never heard of Mae West. He wasn't with it, in the modern sense, but he was a delightful man. Yes, I liked him.
AS: Was Mrs Jack a very hospitable lady?
S: She must have been, because she was very kind when you went for tea, or something like that, you know, in the afternoon, perhaps. It was kind of her to take the trouble. There weren't as many students then as there are now, of course.
AS: They took the class in small groups.
S: Well, just a few at a time, you know, he would ask you to come. The man we had in the second year was a Mr Abbott, but he was, he was not so impressive, although he was a good lecturer; he knew his subject. Then I think we had Professor Terry for History. He was a very good lecturer, very interesting; I enjoyed that, I enjoyed his lectures. The Mathematics man was Professor Macdonald. Of course, it was a he wasn't so socially interested in us. He was a good lecturer. And then for Nat. Phil. we had Professor J. Arthur Thomson, who was an outstanding scientist.
AS: This was G.P. Thomson?
S: G.P. Thomson, yes. Aye, what did I say? Sorry, that was wrong. Yes, you'll have to correct that. I said J. Arthur, but I meant G.P. Thomson, yes. He wasn't a very good lecturer; he didn't get across so easily as some of the others. But he was a nice man, a nice man. He was a wee bit eccentric. He'd had a very hard time during the War. He was lame because he had had a very serious accident during the War. I think we felt sorry for him. The one Did I say I took Logic?
AS: Yes.
S: With Professor Ferguson, I think, was his name. Now, he was a very charming person, but a very rather reserved person. I enjoyed Logic. It was a subject I really enjoyed, because for the first time I had come in contact with this new, new study altogether. I had never done anything like that before, and it was very interesting for me to study the philosophers. Enjoyed it very much.
AS: Who taught Geography?
S: Macfarlane, Professor Macfarlane. (Was he a professor?) He was an awfully jolly chap. We went with him He took us excursions sometimes, you know, and we went here and there, to places like Edzell, and so on, to study the landscape and various things like that. He was a very nice man, a fatherly sort of person, I would have said. But, of course, Geography - I enjoyed the classes - but, I think, perhaps, we didn't have as many classes for that subject, as far as I remember. So I didn't get to know him personally very much, not like these others.
AS: How big were the classes? They would have varied, but ...
S: Well, varied very much. The English class in the first year was a large class, maybe, I don't know, - you know, I wouldn't like to say, because I think I might be completely mistaken, but 50 60 maybe? I think you'd have to corroborate that, because, I mean, we never sort of if it was a small class and, of course, in these days they called the roll, not every day, but and you had to say, Adsum, still at the Latin stage. I didn't do Latin, actually. I didn't do languages at university.
AS: How many women would have been in the classes? Was it ...?
S: Well, by that time, not as many as men, but there were quite a lot, because it was just after the War. We had a lot of students who had come back from the First World War, who were still at the I left I went to the University the year that Linklater left. Now he was one of these famous people, you know, who, I think, was an almost permanent student after the War. That was I went in '95 in '25, and he left - he must have come out of the War in '19, maybe or '20, out of the army, and he was one of these post-Wartime students. And they tended to hang on, because I think they didn't study, or couldn't study. They needed longer to complete their degrees, and so on. And he was among the last of these post-war, post First World War to go.
AS: How did the men look on the women at University?
S: Oh, we got on very well with them. I don't think there was any feeling of … we never felt inferior or anything. We were all equal. We'd been at school together, you know, a lot of us, and we just carried on.
W: No condescension on the men's part?
S: Not that I was aware of, No. No, not that I was aware of. I don't think so.
AS: You just all mixed together?
S: Mixed together, and we went to all the same evening functions and evening clubs, and so on, and it was more or less equal.
AS: At one time, I think, there were parallel societies, men's and ladies'.
S: There might, yes, but by the time we that I came there, there weren't any more at all, just the same. Anything that I had to do was just University, there was no difference between the men and the women.
W: Were you a regular reader of Alma Mater at that time? Was it popular among the students?
S: Yes. It was. Most people read it, you know, yes. It wasn't a very serious magazine, of course, but you got the news of what was going on, and so on, but, of course, I can't tell you what the I wouldn't remember anything that was in, because it was just casual reading, really. I think one of the main things in the University at that time was the Debater, but everybody went to the Debater. And it was very lively. There were certain very clever students. You see, I think, Cathy Gavin, whom you will have heard of, she was one of the leading lights, older than me, at least before my time, anyway; I don't know about her age, and it was a lively debating society, and everybody enjoyed it. It was one of the main ones that there was at University, but there was men and women, it made no difference. Yes.
AS: Did you join any other societies?
S: Yes, well, I did. I was very keen of course, I was a church person from my parents' home, and I was very interested in the Student Christian Movement, which I joined, and was a member all the time; did quite a lot, was an office-bearer at one time. And then I was also very interested in the League of Nations, as it was called at that time, so I was member of the League of Nations Society, and I finally became convenor of the League of Nations Society, because I really was interested. And I think that these societies were very good for us as students, because they did give us a wider outlook, because we had speakers from here and there, and we were able to discuss things and ask questions, and so on, which helped us, I think, in our general way of living, and certainly after you left you had a very varied background of knowledge, and so on.
AS: Was there a strong interest in the League of Nations Society?
S: Yes, there was, fairly. Not anything like the Debater, or anything like that; it was more, perhaps, people who were really interested who went to these things. But there was quite a number of people used to come, all the same, yes.
W: Were students generally interested in politics? Was there much talk about Communism, or anything like that; or were you too busy with your studies?
S: Well, I think, Communism, of course, that was in 1917, it was sort of established in Russia by that time, so there wasn't any very Political discussion was very - oh - quite shallow, really, I think, at that time. We weren't great politicians. Perhaps not as much as now, there's more ... We didn't have any kind of the Students' Union, of course. I think there was still a Man's and Women's Union, when I was there: the Men's Union and the Women.
AS: Yes, where was the Women's Union?
S: Well, it wasn't very It was - I'm not sure if it was really joined by the time that I was there. They used to sometimes meet in a wee room up a stair in old King's. But I think by the time I was really sort of into the university life, it was more or less I'm trying to think: my friend, she was a member of the SRC ...
AS: I understand there was a room at King's for women, and there was a room at Marischal for women.
S: Aye, Marischal College was … Well, it was the men, I think, who usually went to Marischal.
AS: Was there not a separate house in Skene Terrace?
S: Oh, well now, I don't know. I don't remember that. I don't think I could have had anything to do with that.
AS: So what did you do, say, at lunchtime and between classes? Where did you meet?
S: Well, of course, lunchtime was a very short time, because usually if you had a class in the morning and a class in the afternoon there was just about an hour in between. And we didn't stay in hostels, you see. I stayed in lodgings; in King Street, I stayed, for most of my time. And if you had to walk. If you had a class in King's and another class in Marischal, as I had, with an hour between, you had quite a walk up the Spital long ago. So we didn't have time for anything much at lunchtime. But with these societies, and so on, we had it took quite a … you know, you always had something on. And, of course, with friends, you met friends, and we often met in the Reading Room at old King's, of the Library, for studying, and you could have a wee chat. The Library, of course, is now the this wonderful Centre. It was a lovely old building. It really was, when I think of it. And it had a marvellous atmosphere, that old Library, and in between classes, I think, everybody went there, and you could study, or you could have a wee chat - you weren't allowed to talk very loudly, or anything like that, but you could talk to your neighbours, and have a look round the books and find books that you wanted, and so on. We filled our time very adequately, I think. But we did study, of course.
AS: It sounds as if there wasn't much meeting round cups of coffee, then?
S: In the morning, well, we didn't have enough money to indulge in a lot of meetings round cups of coffee, because, as my friend and I who were well, we came here together were reminiscing, she said: "Do you remember, Ethel, if we had a cup of coffee, you couldn't have a doughnut; if you had a doughnut, you couldn't have a cup of coffee". You could have one or the other, because the two together would be too much; you wouldn't have enough money for that to last you. We didn't have money in these days, you know, like as they have now. We didn't go out for meals, or anything like that. You just got your meals in your digs.
AS: Did you get good meals? Did you have good digs?
S: Well, I was all right, yes; I was all right. And mostly they were well enough fed; they looked after them. Some of the landladies were very nice people. They really took great care of their students. And the people who lived at home, of course, they just went home for meals.
AS: Did you stay in the same digs most of the time you were here?
S: I spent all my time with the same lady. Actually, I started she had a house in a place called Orchard Lane, which, I think, is probably gone now. Is it still there?
AS: Yes, it is.
S: Well, a little old house, and then she moved to a bigger flat in King Street, just round the corner, really. And I went with her.
And in this flat she could take more students. She had another two besides me. But I was there.
W: You had your own room? desk and all facilities with that?
S: I had my own room, yes, which was very nice. So I was very fortunate; I enjoyed that. Some of the students shared. Quite a lot of the students shared. But very often they shared with somebody from their own school or somebody whom they knew, and that was all right. But there was no there were no hostels, or that sort of thing.
AS: How did you meet your living expenses? Did you have a bursary?
S: Well, we had I had a bursary, but everybody didn't have a bursary. Your parents, mostly, just had to pay your Well, everybody got what were known as a Carnegie grant.
AS: Everyone got it?
S: Yes, that was available to everybody, to help with the fees. If it would cost any more, your parents just paid. Unless, if you had a bursary, that added on. We had to pay our own digs, though, you know. But, of course, it didn't cost a lot, about but it was a lot in these days, I suppose, it was about £1 a week was the average ... that was just about how much I paid in a week. That doesn't sound much at all, but, I mean, in these days it was, it was. People who had parents who weren't very well off, it was a sacrifice for them to pay all that.
AS: You mentioned you had one sister. Did she come to University?
S: No, she didn't. As a matter of fact, she left school, because she is an asthmatic and she wasn't able really to carry on, and she did Music, but not at university; she did it privately. She didn't like this idea of me living in one room, couldn't understand that at all; no, it didn't appeal to her.
W: How did you choose your digs? Did the University help at all?
S: No. Actually, there was a girl who had been at the Training College before me, who had been at the same school, and she told me, "Well, why don't you go to Mrs Ramsay, and why don't you just go and see if she'll take you", you see. So she was quite happy to take me, and so I just went. That was very often … recommendation from somebody who had been before
W: Did your parents 'vet' the digs before you ...?
S: Well, my mother; my father died before I went to university, just that year. So my mother certainly she came well, we knew by that time we knew this girl who had been at Training College, and, of course, so we knew a lot about the lady. So, we felt quite friendly to her when we went to see her. Yes, yes. She was nice and kind.
AS: You were a country girl. Did you find that the students who had been at town schools welcomed you and mixed quite well with you?
S: Yes, there were a lot of country girls, you know, who had been at schools outside.
AS: Did the country girls tend to stick together, and the town ones together; or did they mix well? Do you remember?
S: Well, I had a lot of girls who had been at school in town, friends, and, of course, country girls as well. We mixed pretty well on the whole, I think, in my experience. It was good. I enjoyed mixing with them, and I think I mixed quite well. I think we all did mix quite well. There may have been some of the girls who had been at schools in town who did tend to keep together, but it wasn't all that obvious really.
AS: There was no strong feeling that ...?
S: No strong feeling, no, no, not that I remember.
AS: What about the toga? It seems to have come and gone from fashion. Was it worn in your day?
S: Yes, we used to wear our gowns.
AS: All the time?
S: Well, most of the time, yes. They were very warm. We liked them.
W: Did you use it as a sort of substitute coat, or...?
S: Yes. You didn't need coat. We just put them on, yes. If it was very cold weather, you did need a coat perhaps, but, I mean, well, if you had not very far to go, you didn't need a coat, you just had the toga.
W: Were students quite fashion conscious, the girls in particular ...?
S: No, I don't think so; I don't think so. We didn't think much about fashion, no. And, of course, I think we were all we didn't wear odd clothes, or anything like that; we were just, well, quite ordinary, normal, dresses and skirts and blouses and things. But we didn't we weren't we didn't exaggerate I think in the way the students go now. I think they … Oh, well, it doesn't matter.
W: A bit extreme nowadays?
S: They look terrible, I think. But no we didn't we were clean and tidy. And there wasn't the same ...
AS: Did you have time for other interests outside your studies? Perhaps interests in the town?
S: Not a great deal. I had one or two relations I used to visit. But, no, we were we tended, I think well, to be interested in what was going on in the University, meeting - well, if you were a member of several University clubs, you met quite frequently, and your time, when you were not studying, was taken up quite a lot, yes. I went to the Choral Society, which I enjoyed as well. I didn't go there all the time that I was in University, but I went for the last year or so, which I enjoyed, and we had a concert, you know. And I can't remember the name of the man who was the conductor.
AS: Was that not Professor Terry?
S: Well, you see, Professor Terry had gone by the time I joined. Professor Terry was the conductor, but he I think he had retired by that time, by the time I actually went, because I had Professor Terry for two years, I think, in History class. But it was another man who did; I can't remember his name. It wouldn't have been Townsend, or something like that, would it? I don't know. I don't remember. He was a very good He was quite good, but and I went there purely for pleasure. I enjoyed the singing, yes, yes. And there was a Highland Choir, there was a Gaelic Choir, and some of the people who were in the Gaelic Choir used to come to the Choral Society as well. They were very keen on the Gaelic Choir, sang beautifully. I still keep up with one of the girls who was in the Gaelic Choir and two of them, they were sisters. She lives in Stornoway. Still keep up with her. You know, occasional letters. She must be about the only one left, I think, of that group, that is besides myself.
AS: And what about at weekends? Did you go home, or did you stay in Aberdeen?
S: No, I couldn't, no; it was too far to go home. I just stayed. Well, I usually went to church, or Chapel. I enjoyed that. I was a church person, so I enjoyed going to Chapel. And we always had one of the professors or one of the outstanding preachers on Sunday. I enjoyed that, yes.
AS: And there had been an academic procession?
S: Well, the professors and they came in, of course, yes, in their robes and so on, yes.
AS: Was the Chapel full?
S: Yes, it was, yes, yes. And people went in their gowns, and their mortar boards, of course, the girls wore, to go to church, because you didn't go without a hat in these days to church.
AS: And what about the holiday times?
S: Oh, well, of course, we went home for the holidays, yes. We didn't get jobs, of course. They weren't usual anyway. The boys often got jobs. The boys in this area got jobs caddying at the golf courses, and that sort of thing. And on my husband's side of the they used to get jobs on the boats, on the summer cruise boats, you know. But it was difficult; there were no jobs to get in those days. Unemployment at that point was very, very high, of course, and there weren't jobs. So one went home. We always had something to study in the holidays, because you usually knew what books you might require for the next classes that you were going to take, and so you studied, and that was quite a good idea, I think. But, then, of course, we probably went off to visit somebody in the holidays. But we didn't do as much travelling then as they do now. We couldn't afford it, no, simply couldn't afford it, no, no. We were all very happy.
AS: You mentioned unemployment. The General Strike would have come during your time as a student; do you remember how that affected ...?
S: That was my second, that was my second year, yes. Well, of course, there was a lot of discussion at that time about the rights and wrongs. And, I think I remember some of the boys The girls couldn't do very much, but the some of the boys went and drove trains and all that sort of thing, when the Strike was on, you know. It was a great adventure for them, I think, to do that sort of thing.
AS: Did that disrupt classes for a week or two, or longer?
S: Not really. Not really. I think they would have just those who went would have had perhaps free time, or they just took time off; it didn't last all that long time [...]. It didn't affect the University as such. I mean, it didn't make any differences in the classes, or anything of that kind. Transport, of course, I think, was difficult, but as most of us walked anyway, it didn't matter. In these days, from the end of King Street up, if you wanted to go on the tram it cost one ha'penny, to go from sort of where you get on at King's up to Castlegate. If you wanted to save your ha'penny, you walked. One ha'penny. In these days, yes. It was marvellous.
W: Do you remember much about the rectorial campaign in 1927?
S: The Rectorial?
W: Sir Archibald ...
S: Oh, yes, that was - now what was his name again? - Lord, Lord ...
W: Birkenhead?
S: Birkenhead, yes. Yes, oh, there was quite a lot of very good humoured fighting and so on, throwing pease meal and that kind of thing. I wasn't very keen on getting pease meal thrown at me, so I was a wee bit in the background, I think, at that point. But, I mean, I remember it going on, of course. And but it wasn't there was quite a lot of discussion went on, and the lectures were and the talks and all that were very interesting, yes. And he got in, actually. I remember the houses. Do they still have their houses? House of Mar, the House of Gordon; you know, there were four houses that the University was divided into, depending where you lived, where your home was.
AS: They did away with that just a few years ago.
S: Ah, well, we still had that. And you voted with your House, you know. Oh, dear, why did they Well, I suppose there are so many you couldn't do it that way. Too many people from ... overseas
AS: Many many more students from other areas ... one nation would have been much too big and outbalanced the other ones.
S: Yes, yes. Nations, they called them. That's right. I'm calling them Houses, but it was Nations; you're quite right.
AS: I believe John Masefield was also a candidate that year. Do you remember him?
S: I don't remember him at all. No, I don't remember him. He probably was a candidate. I don't remember who they all were. I probably would have it all written down somewhere, but I would need to look up, you know, to remind me. One forgets these ...
AS: Did you keep diaries from that period?
S: I did keep some, but I think they're all gone, I don't know where they would be now. I think most of my writings that I ever wrote would be thrown away. Because, you know, you think, "What is the use of keeping that old thing, especially when you move house?". And, of course, I moved house. I lived abroad afterwards, you see, and couldn't keep up a lot of stuff, because I had to leave it at home. So, what was I going to do with it? No, I'm sorry I haven't got any written records that I know of now. I think I threw them all Because if I don't do it, who's going to, you know? It's very difficult.
AS: The other people around University that everyone meets are the Sacrists. Do you remember any of those?
S: Oh, yes, I remember. Yes, yes. Robertson was the one in King's, wasn't it? Was that his name, Robertson? He was a big fat man. We used to say, yes, we used to say if anything was very large, "Aye, twice round Robertson!" They were very, they were very important people, though, because they always were heading all the processions, and anything that happened the Sacrist was there. They were colourful in their uniforms and in when they when they had a procession they looked very grand in their robes and things, and their mace, yes, they always carried the mace, which was an important Do they not have sacrists now?
AS: Oh, yes.
S: Yes, ah, yes, yes.
W: They still look as imposing.
S: Still look important. They're probably still wearing the same robes, yes. Oh, yes, yes. I remember that, yes.
AS: So you did make some special friends amongst your fellow students; you've mentioned one or two?
S: Oh, yes, I made some bonnie special friends, yes.
AS: There's only the one lady you still keep up with?
S: Yes, Mary Smith, and Ena Smith, they're sisters. Both of them became teachers in Stornoway, and they've never moved from Stornoway since they went back. Oh, they've done a lot of travelling but and I keep up with them, but a lot of the other friends have gone, many gone. My very special friend was a lady a girl called Eva Potter. She was Aberdeen, now, she was High School. Mary Wilson, who was Mary Sutherland; she's another one who was the same year as me, and she came to live in Ellon. Oh, I can't remember all the girls that There was a Jeannie Watt. She became a missionary in India; she married a missionary. Oh, I can't I'd need to sit back and think of all the girls that I knew.
AS: I believe you knew Olive Fraser?
S: That was the one, yes that was the one that interested Mr McLaren. That was a shock, you know. I hadn't thought of Olive for a long time. And then, suddenly, her picture appeared on this screen, you know. And he said about Olive. Good gracious, yes, I remember Olive. She I don't know why we got friendly. I don't remember the circumstances, how I came to meet her, or anything, because she certainly was a, a strange girl: she didn't make friends, really. She was a poor soul, I would say. My impression of Olive was, she was very clever, intellectually; she was not a happy girl; she always seemed to me to be seeking something that she couldn't achieve, a sort of inward desire for some kind of, I don't quite know. She had no inward peace in herself, and, you know, we would say, "I don't know what we can do?" "What can we do with Olive?" You know, I mean, when she wasn't there and we discussed: "What can we do with her? She's so difficult, and she's making - (well, we thought she was making) - life very difficult for herself." She never seemed to be able to be calm and happy and relaxed. Always this feeling that she was a really tortured soul. It was dreadful, you know. When I think back, We were young then, and we just thought, "Oh, she's a bit funny, you know, not like the rest of us".
AS: So she didn't have any close friends?
S: She didn't make close friends in the University. I knew her of course, she was younger than I was. I don't know why she came to me a lot to talk. But I used to try to buck her up, you know, and say: "Oh, Olive, you're talking a lot of nonsense." I think it was a pity in a way that she didn't diversify a bit. She was very keen on her literature, of course. Now, I don't … If she had maybe done Philosophy, or something. I don't know what she did other than … because after I left University I lost touch with her.
AS: She did Honours English.
S: She did Honours English?
AS: Did brilliantly.
S: Yes, I know, she was a brilliant student. In that respect, but I don't know what she did else. You know she did Honours English, and she was very keen on the poets and the poetry, you know, and she could criticise and all the rest of it. But in herself she wasn't a happy girl.
AS: She did, of course, write poetry. Was that known?
S: Well, she hadn't really started. She wrote a little bit, I think, but not anything that would be published, I think, in that time. But it was afterwards that she did write poetry. There's a book been published by her, which I have read, and unfortunately I haven't got. I don't think I bought it. I think I just saw it advertised - it was published by the University Press - and I think I got it out of the Library. And I was just thinking I should get it again, because I don't quite remember what it all was. But it was just the fact that you wanted to …, she resented many things. She somehow resented her home and her background. She wasn't happy. I don't know what it was. But you were sorry for her. And, as I say, you tried to get her on to an even keel, but it wasn't always very easy.
AS: So when you left University, you heard no more about her until that day you saw her portrait on the screen?
S: Yes, I had seen the book. But I had heard that she died. Now I don't remember who told me, but it would have been in the papers, likely. And I had heard that she died. And I knew that she wrote. And I also knew that she'd had some very serious mental illness, you see. I think it was Cornhill that she went to; yes, I think so. Well, you see, that didn't surprise me at all. I thought, well, you see, it was there in its roots even in the days when she was just a girl at University. She was always seeking something. She was a very clever girl. It was an awful waste, really. She had a very strange illness, so I believe, before she died.
AS: I believe she died of cancer.
S: Yes, at the end, yes. But she had this strange … I don't know quite what Was it a kind of blood poisoning, or something? She got very, very stout. Now somebody told me that. Now, I don't remember who told me, but, you know, it was just in passing. Anyway, that was extremely sad; and I think Olive was a lost soul, really. And it seemed to me always such a waste. It's funny. She liked to talk about poetry, of course, and about what she knew about the poets and all the rest of it, and I don't know why I always remember, she didn't like Tennyson; I don't know why. I remember that, you know. I thought, well, all right, Olive. And she said: "Tennyson, he's like rice pudding and prunes; and the rice pudding is too thick and the prunes are too sweet." You know that, I mean, it was really clever, wasn't it? But you see, she could do that now, you see. And yet, I just laughed, you see, and said, "All right, Olive, you know, this sort of thing". Now why did that, why has that stuck in my mind since away back in nineteen twenty whatever it was, you know?
AS: I believe there was quite a group of people around that time with a literary bent, and, in fact, someone called them "the nest of singing birds." Had you heard that?
S: Yes, oh yes. No, but, you know, people like JR Allan, he was my year. He died, of course. And his wife was Jean Mackie . She was another girl I knew, Jean Mackie. That was his wife. The other? Linklater, of course, he left just before I went up, the year I went up, Linklater.
AS: Catherine Gavin was still there when you went?
S: Cathy Gavin was still there, when I went, yes; but she was older, and I think she left very soon after I went to University. I was just a fresher, a bajanella, as we called them in these days. Do they still talk about bajanellas?
AS: Not regularly, unfortunately. You did History. Did you know Walter Humphries?
S: Oh, yes. I remember him.
S: He went on to be a lecturer in the Department?
S: Yes, of course, he was another one. Yes, yes, that's right, he was my year, I think. Would he have been?
AS: I believe so.
S: Eric Duncan, he was another person, but he didn't write. Now he became a minister. He went to Geneva. He was another. And do you know, I was in, I was in Prague, just this spring, and I hadn't thought of Eric Duncan for years and years and years, because, well, since we left University, my husband knew him as a minister, and this lady said to me, suddenly, "Do you know Eric Duncan?" And I said, "Yes, well, I do. I actually used to know him quite well". And she said, "Well, her father had been very friendly with Eric Duncan". Well, I thought, in the name of goodness, people spring up all over the place, you know, and that you've known... Yes.
AS: And what about Ralph Walker? Does that name ring a bell?
S: Ralph Walker, Walker. I don't remember that name. I'm trying to remember the name of a boy and a girl that were that I was very friendly with. You know, it's terrible; my memory for names is gone. Ishbel and, what was the boy?
AS: What about Archibald Whiteley?
S: Oh, Archie Whiteley. He was out in We knew him in Monymusk, of course. Yes. He belonged to Ellon, of course. His father was organist in the church in Ellon, and taught music. Yes. He died recently, Archie Whiteley, yes, yes.
AS: And did you live in Monymusk at some time?
S: No, no. But I just knew him, because, of course, we knew him after we came here, because Monymusk is just over Inverurie way, you know.
W: John Speirs, or Spiers.
S: Spiers. I remember that name. Yes, he must have been there, and I would need to sit back and think of all the names. I haven't thought of them for years, and donkeys' years.
Interview continues on MS 3620/1/97/2 |