| Description | Prof HUGH PENNINGTON interview on Friday December 16, 2022. Interviewer Eric Crockart. Summary by Eric Crockart.
(0:00:00) THOMAS HUGH PENNINGTON, born 19th April 1938 in Edgware, Middlesex. Retired at age 65 in 2003, as Head of the Department of Medical Microbiology, officially called Professor of Bacteriology at the University of Aberdeen; then made Emeritus Professor of Bacteriology. No medics in his family; mother went to a teacher training college, father a landscape architect; only medical connection was maternal grandfather, who was Chief Male Nurse in very large psychiatric hospital in Lancaster, explains. Describes how this grandfather did have an influence on his decision to do Medicine, explains about connection to his decision to apply to St Thomas’s (St Thomas’s Hospital Medical School, University of London). Went to Church of England primary school in Scotforth, Lancaster, then to main Grammar School in Lancaster, school very strong on Science, got very good education in Physics, Chemistry and Biology, particularly Biology, explains. Got interested in Entomology, particularly collecting Flies with his friend Richard, explains in detail; but both eventually decided not to pursue careers in Entomology, explains why, and both went into Medicine. (0:06:04) Explains about the Natural History Society at his school. Getting into Medical School was slightly complicated, explains what happened, and why he eventually went to St Thomas’s. Describes his life there as a medical student, very nice being right in the centre of London; talks about studying Anatomy and Physiology. Had to pass second MB (Bachelor of Medicine) exam and then went into the Clinical School. (0:11:28) Talks about the people who taught him; Thoracic surgeon called Pasty Barrett used to wrap his Registrar over the knuckles when he got too into the wound, but he was a very good teacher. Person who had most influence on him as a medical student was Edward Sharpey-Schafer, describes in detail what he was like, brilliant with his patients. Describes Sharpey-Schafer’s attitude to exams, and the question he asked Hugh for his finals. Hugh was his House Physician after he qualified, but Sharpey-Schafer was a heavy smoker and died soon after. Recalls that one of his first patients was called Pennington; a lot of patients had bad lungs because of pollution and smoking, describes them. (0:17:03) Talks about infection control in hospitals in those days, and his own experience at the time. Talks about smoking being almost universal among doctors at that time, some were very heavy smokers; Hugh smoked, but was warned about the habit by one of Sharpey-Schafer’s staff members; Hugh eventually gave up smoking. Graduated in 1962 with Distinction in Pathology; considered career in Pathology, explains this went back to when he was still at school. But Ronald Hare, Professor of Bacteriology at St Thomas’s, offered him an assistant lectureship in Bacteriology; took advice, took the job. Describes Ronald Hare’s work in the 1930s with puerperal sepsis, about one in a thousand women died after childbirth, affected by a Group A Streptococcus; topical because of a number of recent child deaths; talks of how Ronald Hare infected accidentally in the lab by a piece of broken glass and nearly died, and how he was cured; he was a very good mentor for Hugh. (0:24:04) Describes his House jobs at St Thomas’s. Worked 12 days on and 2 days off, first as a Casualty Officer at the front door of the hospital, describes, then six months as a House Physician on the Medical Unit, Sharpey-Schafer’s domain, describes interesting work done there, including the start of getting to grips with sex chromosomes. Talks in detail about how Microbiology became his career; refers to advice from Ronald Hare re Group A Streps and Staphylococcus, which eventually became MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus), explains not really a problem at that time, except in wound infection in hospitals. One of his predecessors at St Thomas’s, Mary Barber, had shown how to stop the bug being a problem with proper infection control in hospital, explains; but her influence waned after she was killed in a car crash. Also refers to discovery of Staphylococcus aureus by Alexander Ogston in Aberdeen in about 1880. So Ronald Hare put Hugh to work researching other staphylococci which were much more difficult to grow, explains in detail, including using Big Ben to time his experiments. Ronald Hare retired, replaced by Tony Waterson, totally different, an expert on electron microscopy, explains. New Professor of Pathology had come in, Ronald Curran, he created new department with new premises; in the basement an Electron Microscopy Dept, hired June Almeida, an important mentor of Hugh at the time, now famous for having discovered human coronaviruses during the time Hugh was there at St Thomas’s. (0:31:39) Talks about going to the United States in 1967; was doing a PhD on Newcastle disease, respiratory disease of chickens, explains. Got his PhD. Tony Waterson knew Duard Walker who was at Madison at Wisconsin, working on similar things; so Hugh went to the University of Wisconsin Medical School, explains interesting time to be in the US. Says he went on a short-term visa, because if he had gone on an Immigrant Visa he might have been drafted for the Vietnam War, as they were very short of doctors. Was at Madison for about a year, talks about the institution and habit of their staff winning Nobel Prizes, explains. (0:35:36) Talks about how Medicine in US compared then with the UK. Obvious thing was people paid for their Medicine. Made him appreciate the NHS. Quality of Medicine in the US was world-beating. Refers to anti-coagulant drug Warfarin, reveals its connection to Wisconsin. Also reveals importance of the university’s football team, whose lack of success was affecting donations to the university. Talks about how he came back to Britain in 1969, thanks to the Medical Research Council, to work at the University of Glasgow for the next ten years, at Institute of Virology, lavish facilities. (0:40:26) In 1970 moved from working for the MRC to working for the university, explains. In 1979 comes to work in Aberdeen. Ronald Hare, his first boss at St Thomas’s, used to praise the work of John Smith at the City Hospital in Aberdeen, explains. Chair was advertised in Aberdeen, Hugh applied, explains he heard good science was being done in Aberdeen. Takes up post as Professor of Bacteriology and Head of the Dept of Medical Microbiology. Explains distinction between Bacteriology and Microbiology. (0:45:00) Explains what the Dept was like when he started there in 1979. Heard students called it "Sleepy Hollow", basically a teaching department, explains in detail. His biggest challenge was getting money to do research and working out a research programme, took him a while, explains, and contrasts to department he had come from in Glasgow. Describes staffing when he took over; about half a dozen academic staff, lots of technical staff; did testing for the hospitals in Aberdeen. Refers to lab at City Hospital. Explains about diagnostic work. Triple function: teaching, research and diagnostic work. (0:49:57) Being an outsider not an issue in Aberdeen, explains. On arriving also became an Honorary Consultant in Medical Microbiology for Grampian Health Board; he spent more time on the teaching and the research side than the NHS side, explains how this worked. But having two masters did come big eventually, explains this was because of organisational changes, including the City Hospital lab moving to Aberdeen Royal Infirmary; polite arguments, time-consuming, explains. Also arguments over funding for Aberdeen, felt they were being short-changed in terms of health service funding, contrast with Glasgow, explains. (0:54:23) Explains this was happening in the 1980s and 90s. These arguments went on for years, have never stopped really; explains in detail about this and the changes to the management of the health service brought in as a result of Mrs Thatcher’s government, and the university not being able to afford the service it gave to the NHS any more. This was during the era when George McNicol was the university Principal; he was one of the two masters, the other was the General Manager of the health board. Also refers to changes in the way the university was funded, and increased importance of research for funding; losing funding and having to close departments. Recalls Senate meetings when closure of Physics and Music departments was discussed, and George McNicol accepted resignation of Professor of Classics. Reference to Arbuthnott formula for areas of deprivation which meant Glasgow got much more money than Aberdeen, seen as relatively affluent. Hugh’s department survived. (1:00:09) Driven by changes in policy from UK government, but because health always devolved in Scotland, Hugh spent a lot of his time in Edinburgh, explains. Became Dean of the Faculty of Clinical Medicine in 1987, talks about this. Derek Ogston, who had been Dean, gave up for health reasons, Hugh was put into the job. does not know why. Talks about his responsibilities in this role, basically to argue the case for Medicine in the university; fought suggestions from the Arts that Medicine should take more cuts because it was expensive. Fact that George McNicol also had a medical background did not help; recalls how John Clegg, Professor of Anatomy, predicted that medicine would get no favours when he heard George McNicol had been appointed, explains. Recalls he had an ally in all these battles with George, and the health board, in John Mallard of Medical Physics. (1:05:03) Talks about how the Dept of Microbiology developed with all these challenges. Explains what he did, most pleased at getting external funding. Helpful colleagues, including some involved in the health service diagnostic work; Margaret Moffat, a virologist, and David Gregory, an electron microscopist; explains how they helped. Mentions collaborative work with the British Antarctic Survey; explains about FIDS, because the Survey used to be called the Falklands Islands Dependency Service. Refers to his nearly going to the Antarctic, decides not to explain why, but does explain why he visited the European Space Agency in Brussels. Talks about ceasing to be Dean in 1992. Talks about his research interests.; fingerprinting microbes, going back to his days at St Thomas’s, explains how techniques have changed.; phage typing, used in Aberdeen for investigating E coli O157, explains in detail. Hugh refers to trying to set up an E coli reference lab in Aberdeen, trying to get phages from London and being initially refused. Explains how they eventually looked at a whole range of bugs, including Group A streptococcus; trying to develop new and quicker ways of fingerprinting these bugs so they could track their spread, explains. Life long research interest. (1:11:54) Explains in detail about his work with E coli not just in Aberdeen but in the wider world. Set up a reference lab in Aberdeen in the 1990s, to check so that if someone thought they had isolated this bug, that’s what it was. Refers to big outbreak of E coli O157 in Wishaw in Lanarkshire, people started dying. Hugh was contacted by a senior civil servant from the Scottish Office and asked to chair an inquiry before the outbreak had finished. Explains it was not a public inquiry, not held in public. Talks about the merits of this, explains about inquiry. Refers to Michael Forsyth, who was then the Secretary of State for Scotland, this was before Parliamentary devolution, who had oversight of medicine in Scotland. Also had a health minister Lord James Douglas-Hamilton, did not take much part; pays tribute to the effectiveness of Michael Forsyth, who wanted to make sure it wasn’t going to happen again. Makes comparison to COVID. Tells of how inquiry progressed. Refers to Hazard Analysis, explains about this in connection with food safety control, invented by NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Administration) to stop astronauts getting food poisoning. Explains how this was implemented as result of the inquiry. (1:18:01) Talks about effect of Wishaw inquiry on reputation of the department in Aberdeen, and how he feels the university could have made more of the connection. Compares this with his chairing of the public inquiry into an outbreak of E coli O157 in south Wales in 2005, after he retired from the university. Talks about his media work, and how he was used a lot to drive publicity for Hazard Analysis. Welsh inquiry happened right at the start of a new period for public inquiries, explains. Talks about hiring a Counsel to ask questions, Sir James Eadie QC; explains about the inquiry, how it differed from Wishaw; old people involved there, young kids in Wales. (1:24:52) Welsh inquiry went on till 2009, because had to wait till criminal matters had been dealt with, and it cost £2.3m. Feels problem with public inquiries is lessons are often learned, but inquiry has no way of ensuring recommendations are followed, and then people forget. Talks about importance to him of communicating with the public, and becoming a high profile microbiologist; pleased about essays he has written for the London Review of Books, starting before he retired; explains he has just done one on Group A Strep. (1:28:00) University always happy to pass on his contact details to outside bodies, but feels they could have made more of his high profile communication role. Gives his assessment of how Dept of Microbiology changed from his arrival in 1979 till he retired in 2003. Got more active in research; teaching changed, thinks it has got lost a bit, explains; people thought age of infection was over, but that is not the case; reveals he is "slightly pissed off" about current situation re this in medical schools. Talks about work he got into not long before he retired, being an expert witness for the legal profession, explains; obliged him to keep up to date with the subject of microbiology. Talks in detail about a case he was involved in re a man who was stabbed in the head. (1:35:17) Talks about how he has recently become a blogger, for the London Review of Books, explains. Sums up his career and achievements; couldn’t claim he has discovered very much, but has moved on some areas of science. Biggest regret, has not had that stroke of luck. But pleased about his work, including keeping microbes in the public domain. Says he has not been advising anybody about the current COVID-19 pandemic, but has been writing about it, including a book; explains about significance of developments in recent years in molecular biology, and how if COVID-19 had appeared when he was a medical student it would have gone without notice, just another cause of pneumonia. (ENDS 1:40:25)
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