| Description | JOHN MILNE interview at Sir Duncan Rice Library, University of Aberdeen on Friday June 12, 2015. Interviewer Eric Crockart. Summary by Eric Crockart.
3 sessions were recorded during the day on a Marantz digital recorder. Interviewee and Interviewer wore clip on microphones recording into left and right stereo channels respectively. Interviewer is recorded on the left stereo channel, and interviewee is recorded on the right stereo channel. Indicative timings in the summary are given in (hour:minute:second) format.
SESSION 1.
(0:00:00) JOHN CHARLES MILNE. Born 29 May 1948, in Menzies Road, Torry, Aberdeen. Sir Dugald Baird was present at birth, at 3.30 in morning. Father John was a mechanic, both parents came from Aberdeen. Father's grandparents from Skye. Mother's side mainly from Kennethmont. Mostly agricultural labourers and farm servants. Grew up in prefab in Briarfield Terrace, then on to council flat in Willowbank Road, where we all stayed till 1968. Willowbank Road the family seat. Mother was Daphne Jean Leslie Forbes. Her father was a Thain, but in those days did not marry till first child was born, so she was a Forbes, while family were Thains. She lived in vicinity of the university. She and his father met at Sunnybank School. Married in 1941. Middle of three brothers. All went to Aberdeen Grammar School. He earned bursary there at age 9, which his pal Sandy McNay had alerted him to. Both got bursaries.
(0:05:10) Had good education, lots of sports and friends. Aberdeen at time friendly place, but not much fresh air, suffered from asthma. Used to be pall of smoke hung over Ferryhill from coal-fired electricity station, affected his asthma. Left Grammar School in 1966. Going to University not foregone conclusion. Careers master said go to university and get a degree and get a better job. Persuaded by a cousin who had gone to university, and others. Thought Science was a bit dull, but was swayed to study Sociology. Also Geography. But developed mental block. Did not finish his Sociology degree. 1969. Working ethic is in most working class families. During university holidays always had a job. While at school had jobs at Gordon Graham, beer bottling plant at harbour. Distant cousin worked there, knew he hired students. Got a job at less than five pounds a week, good wage for a teenager then. Always hankered for going to London, knew there were jobs there. Aberdeen getting quite depressed in late 1960s, wages low, so took better jobs in London.
(0:11:07) One Easter break was trying to study hard, bumped into cousin Alex Forbes in Aberdeen University Students' Union. Alex mentioned his half-brother Jimmy Simpson, who used to give them jobs at school, now trying new enterprise. Casual labouring jobs with Aberdeen Service Company (ASCO). Refers to his book "Dubs: How the Oil Came North", which covers this period 1967-1973, working life with Aberdeen Service Company. Paid ten shillings an hour, better than previous rates, gave it a go. Hard, hard work. But not steady work. Only when big loads of mud. ASCO based at harbour. Founded by Jimmy Simpson, local entrepreneur, many irons in fire. Had one-armed bandit machine business, boarding house, bingo shouting at the Kingsway. His father as mechanic would sometimes fix his car. Jimmy assistant manager at Gordon Graham bottling plant, but business fading away because of competition from big brewers. Mentions Hays and Chivas Brothers at time doing similar business. Some visitors from Yarmouth had mentioned to Jimmy in 1965 or 1966 that rigs drilling in North Sea were looking for facilities in Aberdeen, Dundee or anywhere on east coast. Preferred bonded warehouse facilities so could import duty-free. Jimmy already had a bonded warehouse, saw opportunity. Claimed he had a service company as well, just made ASCO up on the spot.
(0:17:14) Explains about Mud. Used for drilling operations. Quite complicated, took him years to understand it. Rigs were bigger to cope with North Sea, and drilling deeper wells than in southern gas fields. More demand for Mud. Heavy, dirty, dusty stuff. First encounter with oil industry. Mud came in sacks from overseas, barytes, powdered clay, very heavy, each bag 50 kilos, but no bigger than big cushion. Needed dry warehouses, level floors, and forklift trucks. This was pre-containerisation, offloaded at docks and then put on pallets. Nowadays everything goes offshore in containers - then, everything put on pallets.
(0:21:15) Explains about how unaware people in Aberdeen were of the oil industry, could not understand sending mud offshore to put in hole in the North Sea. 1970, still at university, first contact with ASCO. Had taken a year out of university. Shared view of his generation that Aberdeen had no prospects. Big companies, paper mills, engineering works were closing. Friends drifting south, or going overseas. Within UK, attraction was London, his intention to go and get job there. Explained to Jimmy he was looking for job for a year to fund his emigration. Fully understood, he did not think oil business would last more than a couple of years, transitory thing that would disappear. Until 1970 when they discovered Forties Field, everyone convinced it would be passing thing. Less than a hundred people working in oil industry in Aberdeen till then. Knew most of them. Even they thought it would be over by 1972. But impressed by the Mud Engineers, they travelled world, made a lot of money, he thought he could get a job as a mud engineer, with his background. Did not realise Jimmy had deal with his customers that they would not poach his staff. So did not become a mud engineer. From June 1970 - November 1970 worked with Shell, BP, Hamilton Brothers. But got message from all of them that they had been working at it for five years, and this was their last stab at it - they would pull out if they found nothing. Then Ekofisk and Forties Fields were discovered.
(0:27:19) Did not immediately change perceptions in Aberdeen, because kept under wraps. But he had early knowledge of what Forties might be, as he was called in to deal with field core samples in BP store run by Stanley Adams - anglicised version of his original Polish name. November 1970. Stanley wanted to hire forklift for whole afternoon, said he needed someone he could trust to work behind closed doors. Van arrived from Dundee loaded with empty boxes. Another van arrived with core samples. He had to take core samples out, label them and put them in boxes to send to research facility in Wales. He could see core samples were dark in hue, from layers of carboniferous materials. He was there as helper for a geologist, had to follow his instructions about what to write about the core samples. Suspects these were the Forties core samples. Later asked Stanley about the core samples, not allowed to tell.
(0:32:54) December 1970. SEDCO (Southeastern Drilling Services) Sea Quest semi-submersible rig. Expensive piece of machinery, better prospects elsewhere in world. But when he saw what was happening with BP, expected some announcement about oil. Sub-contracted rig to Hamilton Brothers, even stingier than BP, small American company. Had to spend 20,000 dollars a day to hire this rig. Had to hire dockers and cranes to load their supply boats, local representative of Hamilton Brothers, John Spargo, would only hire dockers on day rates, never on overtime. Coming up to Christmas and New Year 1970, rig working for Hamilton Bros on secondment from BP. John Spargo said he would not be hiring dockers over this period.
(0:36:49) Then on Hogmanay 1970, John Spargo said he needed a squad of dockers. Cost three times as much. He said no matter, needed 150 tons of brine. Had special mixing tank. Explains need for brine when drilling offshore wells. Had boat standing by to go out to Sea Quest. Because Spargo said he did not need any, had let their boys go. Only him and two others in office. Wondered how they were going to mix 150 tons without labour. Eventually got a few people from company back to form skeleton crew, managed to make this brine, and boat sailed for North Sea. He had promised to meet his mates in the pub, finished his shift about 9pm, and met his mates in Silver Slipper pub. They did not believe his story about being late because he was sending 150 tons of salt water out to the North Sea. Heard later that by sending that load, Hamilton Brothers managed to finish their well, and produced some condensate from it. Because samples came back, and John Spargo told him to be quiet about them. But did confirm there were commercial quantities of condensate. That was what became the Argyll Field, first to produce oil in 1975. Realised in that November-December 1970 period that North Sea oil would not end soon and something would happen.
(0:41:55) Decided to stay with ASCO. No dramatic changes for his career, filling in forms, more work in 1971. Still could not drive a car, did not pass driving test till August 1972. Explains what ASCO was providing for the oil industry. Started with mud handling services. Used bonded storage facilities. But dilapidated old building. Jimmy Simpson did not have confidence that it was worth spending more money on facilities. Those events of 1970 changed everyone's view. Lot of planning then. Jimmy Simpson had idea of building Happy Valley, developing East Tullos. Oil companies wanted fully-equipped temperature-controlled buildings and offices for hundreds of people. This was really beyond scope of Jimmy Simpson, as a small local business. Leaders of oil companies, particularly the Americans, were very approachable. Some English bosses less so. We knew something was happening, everyone looking for bigger premises, beyond scope of ASCO.
(0:45:27) They were essentially fixers for the oil companies. Had the "can do" attitude. Incoming people looking for all sorts of things - housing, hotels, education. Demanded high level service company. We needed big change in approach, needed more financial backing. Suitors came wanting to buy ASCO. Mentions various companies, including Brown and Root, who had operated at Yarmouth. Jimmy eventually sold out to Sidlaw Industries from Dundee, who had made their money in jute. Think he was a bit late in the game. By then Wood Group had come in, with money, buying new trucks and much better facilities than ASCO could afford. Seaforth Maritime, and Hudsons, and Offshore Marine all seemed to have more money. ASCO left behind in 1971 and 1972 through lack of money. Thinks Sidlaw Industries bought ASCO from Jimmy Simpson for £74,000 - paltry amount. J G Barrack were the other local group who did the mud handling. Comparable to ASCO, less ambitious. Barracks never developed either, eventually sold out to Seaforth Maritime. We got on fine with Barracks, even though in competition - old farming attitude that you helped your neighbour. Changed in 1972 when the bigger boys came in.
(0:49:42) Levels of local entrepreneurship. Does not have an entrepreneurial head. Jimmy was entrepreneurial, but did not have any money. Customers liked that he always said yes. Leading businesses in Aberdeen at the time were probably haulier companies, like Charles Alexander, and George T. Fraser. They did not move into the business, although they had the warehouses and the trucks, they stayed in the fish business. Local engineering companies like Hendersons, could have been better placed, could have capitalised, but never moved into oil business. Message was it was a nine-day wonder, and would not last. When my attitude changed in 1970, but his friends with safe jobs would not change to take a risk in the oil business. That did change in 1975 when they saw the people coming in, and the money they were making.
(0:53:05) Thinks local people missed the boat. Huge opportunities. Mostly Americans, quite a few French, Norwegians overtaken British in entrepreneur terms. Don't know why, maybe we are too conservative, too risk aware. Full of admiration for Sir Ian Wood and what he has done, but he was late into the business. Did not see oil business as a future till about 1972. He has become a billionaire, but no one else has come close. Thinks as a sociologist, we in Aberdeen were averse to trying anything new. Saw that with his family and friends, saw oil jobs as risky. We had dealings with local traders, recounts dealing with Cosalt for boiler suits, insisted on them paying cash because oil was a "dodgy business". Mentions John Williams at Typewriter Services, quite entrepreneurial. He did quite well, but hit his comfort zone too early and gave up. Think we've got a thing about being a millionaire, and that's enough. No one goes on and developed global business, value beyond local area. Local people hesitant approach, try not to get above ourselves, anyone who does gets shot down. Recommends speaking to Edwin Reid, local manager of Clydesdale Bank. Up to that point dealing with farmers, under strict circumstances, then in 1973 gates opened and throwing cash at anybody. Remembers one or two of the local haulage companies set up in competition with Alexanders and Frasers. Given money on favourable terms by the Clydesdale Bank to expand, big lorries, and houses. Big change in 1973. But they all reached their comfort zone and stopped trying - Ian Wood the exception.
(1:00:37) ASCO bought over 1972. Did not like new owners. Liked can do approach, and everyone mucking in, under Jimmy Simpson. The new owners Sidlaw Industries had old English approach of hierarchical behaviour. Did not feel comfortable with that. Had seen enough of incoming companies to see who was best to work for. During 1973 all sorts of opportunities available. Looking for another job. Offered 3 during 1973 by various people. End of 1973 had been working with SEDCO, who had designed Sea Quest rig and had various triangular semi-submersibles. Had been working for ASCO as a Customs Clerk, in a suit, then had to put on overalls and drive a forklift. But part of the day seconded to SEDCO. Describes how they set up operation to run one rig offshore. Very few people, compared with Shell. SEDCO had same can do attitude, and easy going approach. Worked at same time at Shell, and different attitude, although their boss Jock Munro was an affable Scotsman, not typical Shell at all - company had layers of bureaucracy. SEDCO offered me job at end of 1973. Had acquired premises at West Tullos. Beyond reach of ASCO. Had to clear this with his boss, because he had this no hire policy for going to work for one of the clients. But Jimmy Simpson explained that policy had gone now, ASCO so big that those rules no longer applied. So left with his good wishes. I still hoped this would be my passport overseas. Did not think this would be a 25-year career, thought maybe another five.
(ENDS 1:09:44)
SESSION 2.
(0:00:00) Picks up from joining SEDCO on Dec 10, 1973. Had set course on being a materials supervisor, realised it was his forte. SEDCO geared up from one to nine rigs, devised their own training school. Professor from Texas University, Tommy Bicknell, persuaded to train roughnecks to become drillers. We helped build his school in Regent Road. He offered me a place in their training school. Would involve going offshore and learning to become rig superintendent or rig manager. Fantastic opportunity. Knew people who did this and did well. He thought about it, and realised needed mechanical aptitude, not gifted that way. Had good memory for numbers and identifying equipment, which you need for being a materials man. Worked with Virgil Jeter, a tall Texan, materials man with SEDCO. Thought it seemed a suitable career. When they offered me job to run their traffic division, thought it would be a good stepping stone. So arrived in December, full of high hopes. But then found Virgil had been transferred, and got frosty reception from Dutchman Herman Dries now doing his job. Was there for 18 years. Took 13 years to find out why frosty start. Only when Herman Dries was retiring in 1986 did he find Driese had wanted someone else to do the job, and was over-ruled.
(0:05:54) Lot of activity in 1974. North Sea really picking up. Shortage of equipment. Imports mainly from America. Was working with shipping lines on imports. 1975 saw a downturn, too many rigs built, a surplus. SEDCO had to send some to other places like South Africa and Brazil. So now busy with exports. Thought he would go now on one of these rigs. Wanted to go with one of them. It was explained to him that individuals were assigned to each rig, and would go with it. It took till 1977 till finally got his own rig, SEDCO 700 - one of a new bigger series of rectangular platforms. Floating semi-submersibles, could move quickly to another part of the world.
(0:10:00) Money no object attitude because of push to get oil into production? - did not encounter that within SEDCO. Then recounts time they did spend money for critical offshore project in Brazil. Chartered vessels. Had to charter aircraft to get critical parts from America, through London and on to the rig. Spent two weeks on that, money no object there. But that was because bureaucracy in Brazil was so bad, it would mean the rig would not be ready to start drilling, and so cheaper to do it that way. Did see money no object attitude in other parts of the town. Less well run outfits like Global Marine. If they ran out of people, they would give pay rises to get more. SEDCO had different policy. Media exaggerated the money spending. In 1977 became a materials supervisor with SEDCO 700, in charge of equipment supply - a purchasing manager, logistics manager, a stores manager - making sure company gets goods at right time, at right price, and in right condition. Explains various jobs and their progression. SEDCO 700 on long term contract to Shell. But also first son born that year. Developed nesting syndrome, not bothered about going overseas any more.
(0:15:33) Clarifies that his girlfriend mentioned earlier became his wife in 1974. Now with firm job with SEDCO, could afford mortgage. Getting good salary. Found flat in Watson Street, got grant for bathroom conversion. Had another two boys in 1979 and 1981. Very happy to stay in Aberdeen. Worked with Cormorant Alpha rig. Got involved with stores management, which involved some offshore travel. In 1981 SEDCO 700 offered transfer to California. Thought this was wonderful, it was his rig, thought he would get transferred to California - but they changed the rules, told him he was too valuable. Another factor may have been having to move his wife and family. Also American restrictions on Brits working in America. Was not worried, happy working at home. Tells story about how he was getting paid in Pounds, but other nationalities getting paid in Dollars. Change in Exchange Rate meant he was making more than the ex-pats, so there were grumbles.
(0:20:25) So his boss offered to pay him in Dollars. So he agreed to go on a Dollar contract for about $25,000 a year. But Exchange rate changed again. Meant he was now getting equivalent of £25,000 a year, huge amount in 1981-2. Living in Sycamore Place, in a villa, at the time. So went to bank and asked to borrow two and a half times his salary to build house in the country. But could find no land to build on. Eventually found a plot in Polmuir Road, near where he was living. Bank manager surprised to find how much he was earning. Agreed to give him two and half times his salary to build new house. Lived in that house for 25 years, great for family growing up. But in 1981, -82, -83 oil price beginning to decline. Had gone back to college to get a business diploma from Aberdeen College. Went on to do qualification for CIPS (Chartered Institute of Purchasing Supply) by distance learning in the evenings. Very creative period for him. Oil price collapsing, thought it would be end of story, rigs leaving, 1985. Thought he was getting qualifications that would help him transfer to other industries. But thinks working in oil industry was actually barrier to getting job in another industry, typecast.
(0:26:13) Wanted to be a materials supervisor by time he was 30, got there by 29. Materials manager by 39 rather than 40. Big slump in 1986 opened everyone's eyes, took people by surprise. Decided to make best way he could. Explains key qualities needed to be a successful materials supervisor. Broad experience, general knowledge role rather than specialist role, need to maintain good contacts, and integrity. Had seen corruption earlier. Had bribes offered to him. Know something wrong with a company who has to offer a bribe.
(0:29:58) People would pay bribes to prefer their equipment over the opposition's. Oil companies would be more prone to bribery and corruption. In boom times in late 1970s there was quite a bit of bribery going on, did not want to mention names. Knew some people who got caught, one ended up in jail. Tried to maintain his integrity. In 1982 became senior materials supervisor with SEDCO FOREX. SEDCO a family company out of Dallas, Texas, founded by William P. Clements. Started with bank loan, bought two land rigs, earned enough to buy more, till eventually could afford to buy these super semi-submersible rigs. Started in 1947, by 1981 they were a big business. Had gone as far as they could go being a drilling contractor. Schlumberger came in and merged them with their FOREX division. Moved from being a family company, everybody on first name terms, open door policy. Schlumberger bought them for $1.1 billion, started introducing their way of doing things. Different attitudes. Certain amount of resentment at changes. But he was okay with it because of his business course. SEDCO would not pay his fees, but Schlumberger said they would if he passed. Oil business was on the slide, lot of pressure to save your job.
(0:38:39) During 1982-86 period with SEDCO FOREX, involved with BP joint venture. That was step up to senior materials supervisor. Explains about this joint venture, and names the various rigs involved. Needed to be politically aware. BP comparing costs to see if they would stay in business of owning rigs, so when crunch came in 1986 they decided they would not own rigs, and sold them. Explains his extra responsibilities, more politically important. Had ideas about changing the purchasing systems they had had in SEDCO. Schlumberger looking for ways to improve things, he had suggestions. More a manager than a supervisor, needed to drastically change the way we did the business.
(0:43:52) Blisters upgrade at Invergordon. Explains about what this was. Engineers wanted to improve the 700 series rig, needed bigger BOP (Blow Out Preventer) to handle higher-temperature, higher-pressure wells. Mentions his time with naval architects at Ulsan in South Korea. When rig brought to North Sea, found it could not handle all the equipment needed, and stay safely buoyant. Had to offload earlier equipment needed for well drilling, and ship it back to shore till needed again at start of next well drilling. Not properly thought out. So decided to add blister buoyancy packs to each leg. Explains how SEDCO always tried to get out of shipyard as soon as possible to save money, when in for annual inspection. But this time a joint venture with BP, everything had to be accounted for. So when went into Invergordon to get the blisters applied, for first time had to implement contract management scheme. Finished job on time, and on budget. Planned managed approach was valuable, that was one of changes that took place in the mid 1980s. SEDCO 711 built in Ulsan along with 712 and 714. Went over there and saw big dry docks with same cranes you see at Harland and Woolf, really just copy of British shipbuilding system, but on much bigger scale. Building these rigs like Lego, went like clockwork. Took about 18 months to complete a rig. Reported to BP it was 119 million Dollars to build this rig in Korea. At same time the Sea Explorer started in Greenock to same spec, same design. It took 4 years to build and it cost 119 million Pounds. By time it was finished had to tow it up to Invergordon to do Blisters embellishment. We did it in 4 weeks for something like 5 million Dollars. BP took 6 weeks and it cost 6 million Pounds. Echoes Margaret Thatcher's approach to British shipbuilding - we can't do it as well as them, so let them do it.
(0:51:03) Thereafter no rigs built in UK, maybe one or two jack-ups in Clyde, but no more semi-submersibles. Have to be realistic. Proud to be British, but we don't do shipbuilding as well as we think. Koreans were still learning how to do it. They don't build as well as the Japanese. They built 710 at same time, much better finish than the Koreans. Explains how his job did sometimes take him abroad for weeks at a time. Explains about SICS (Shipboard Inventory Control System). Start of computers, replacing old manual reports. Tells of how one SEDCO employee (Duke Zinkgraf) introduced the same kind of Hewlett Packard computer used on the Moon landings to automate the ballast control systems on a rig. As add-on to that could have a computer inventory system, that was his introduction to computing. These were mainframe computers, no PCs till late 1980s. Made a difference, had data you could see and analyse about annual turnover, and delivery times. Could improve purchasing.
(0:56:32) 1986, became purchasing manager for SEDCO FOREX. Till 1991. Explains what that involved. Bit of a cull in 1986, ex-pats went back to America. Had his own ideas about purchasing, and managing and training. Went from single to multiple source supplier. Meant rigs working on marginal rates, made them more profitable. Now in charge of all the materials supervisors, not entirely successful, never a natural leader of men. People who had been his mates, now his underlings, could be awkward. Staff of 30 supporting 14 North Sea rigs. When he visited 20 years later instead of 30 staff for same number of rigs, had 130 staff. 1991 changed employer. Starting to repeat himself, had got too comfortable, getting bored. Headhunter came along and said someone looking for a materials manager for Smedvig, to expand their fleet and become the new SEDCO. Had a few rigs, wanted a bigger fleet, had heard he had done good job and would he join them? Only there for a brief time, obvious they had been expanding in previous few years, faced by another oil price decline. So they were contracting and his job did not last very long. Did not expand their fleet and sold out to Seadrill. So in 1992 was laid off, did not have a job. So had to think of something new - founded his own company. (Takes a break here before starting to explain what this involved, in Session 3).
(ENDS 1:03:32)
SESSION 3.
(0:00:00) PEI Limited, his own company founded after he was laid off by Smedvig in 1992. Background. Had noticed in time at Smedvig one of weaknesses in purchasing system, everything bought locally. Most drilling equipment offshore American in origin. Smedvig not doing anything with American suppliers, so paying more by dealing with local suppliers, because of cost markups. Had to devise scheme for getting an American agent for purchasing goods. Found company called PEI. Went to Houston to check them out, found perfect capability for Smedvig's needs. But laid off before time to implement the scheme. But afterwards got call from Jack Chandler of PEI, asked what he was planning to do next. Out of blue he said he thought it was time for him to expand overseas, would John Milne see if it was viable for him to set up a PEI London? Confessed he was thinking of setting up his own agency through Aberdeen. Agreed to do market research for PEI for £12,000 for three months work. John Milne then suggested they do it on a joint venture basis, and put in his redundancy money. Set up on Black Wednesday in 1992, when stock markets crashed. No clients, but decided to set up in Aberdeen. Could get no success with drilling contractors or any of his peers. But then had contact with Chevron. Said this was exactly what they needed, they were spending too much time on low value procurement.
(0:08:02) Clarifies that PEI stands for Petroleum Equipment International. His CV describes him as a Procurement Professional, Fellow of Chartered Institute of Procurement and Supply. Clarifies difference between being materials supervisor and procurement. Concentrate mostly on high value items, low value procurement you try to streamline. Now a gamekeeper turned poacher. Now offering services he was previously trying to identify. No success with drilling contractors, but could see the oil companies were spending too much time on low value procurement. Had to go through process with Chevron, submitted our proposals, with backup of PEI Houston who had done this already. Clarifies that rig or platform has huge number of items they need on daily basis. At bottom end of market huge number of things like medical supplies, office supplies, toilet supplies. Instead of oil company buying things from huge variety of sources, they wanted to put all their low value staff into a basket so they would get a single invoice on a regular basis.
(0:13:33) We won Chevron contract, something like half a million pound turnover a year, not a huge profit margin on low value equipment. Found some success, built up rapport with Chevron platform and office staff - although some were laid off because of what PEI was able to do. Doing same job with 2 or 3 people that Chevron had 25 people doing. Word spread, one or two other companies used the service. Needed to find bigger premises. Chevron had seen impact on their local purchasing, wanted to apply this to international purchasing. Hence need for PEI to get bigger premises. Describes range of items they purchased, once asked for whole library for pre-natal and post-natal books for a hospital in Nigeria, because Chevron had offered to help the local community there.
(0:18:26) Same can do attitude important for success in this business. Then hit a glass ceiling, can only go so far in low value procurement. Needed to expand. Chevron needed somebody bigger to do their business, appointed someone else in America to do purchasing for them worldwide. So had lost our biggest contract in 1996. Looked at diversifying. Set up Donline, for wireline supply. PEI was from 1992-97. Donline started in 1994, to 1997. Donline started to help Chevron, who were having difficulty getting wire supplies. Discovered there was wider demand for this in North Sea. Donline another string to our bow.
(0:22:11) Explains how Craig International Supplies (CIS) was set up in 1997. Loss of Chevron contract because not big enough. Sounded out ASCO, Seaforth Maritime, and the Wood Group. Eventually ended up with the Craig Group. They were miles behind Wood Group, though had started on same basis. So agreed to set up new venture with Craig Group and another supplier, became Craig International Supplies. Vindicated because company that won the Chevron contract went into liquidation. Chevron contract now up for grabs. Instead of half a million pounds a year, ten million pounds a year. Had backing of Craig Group, it worked very well. Now Managing Director Business Development. Now had enough staff, of about 30. Could see great prospects in Caspian region, West African region and beyond, to develop this project. Explains about background. Tried to persuade Craig Group to move overseas and set up bases abroad. But something happened. Not able to talk about it. Found something morally wrong in company, reported it, so became a whistleblower. (Recording was paused for a few minutes at this point, to discuss what could be recorded on this topic)
(0:28:35) Explains about circumstances in which he found himself at Craig International Supplies. Thinks Aberdeen was behind the pace in developing international markets, but did not have wholesale support from fellow directors. Another complication, difficult to explain following his removal from the Craig Group, had to sign that he would not divulge details of his departure. Resigned on moral and ethical grounds, maintained his integrity. That was in 2001. Free to go on to another organisation, but did not feel motivated to do so. Comfortable enough to do something less stressful, in his early 50s, kids all at college. Headed for golf course, but after six months had enough. Work ethic. Bumped into friend called Andy Grieve, had been one of young engineers on Blisters project. He had progressed up career ladder. Had taken over company called Hampco. Another dip in market in 2002. Andy Grieve had lost some contracts, so asked John Milne to help. Been helping ever since. Andy decided Aberdeen was not powerhouse we wanted it to be, decamped to Houston. Oil business drawn back to Houston, like bees to honey. Andy needed someone to hold the fort in Aberdeen, so John Milne back doing procurement again. Part time basis.
(0:36:08) Also set up Kinmuir Limited, as a Sole Trader. Independent consultant, doing procurement and logistics. Clients knew him. Refers to decline of oil industry, and North Sea vessels visibly sitting offshore, as seen from top of the university library. Decline in drilling. Houston appears to be on the up, acknowledged centre of oil supply business, disappointing Aberdeen has missed the boat. Should have been an international centre, we're still playing at it. More activity in places like Dubai, supply, no drilling for decades, but now world wide centre for equipment supply. Explains why Aberdeen has missed out. Lack of ambition, comfort zone, made enough, don't have hunger to go on and explore. Some have, but gone elsewhere. Ones who stay at home are the settled type, like him. Desire for Aberdeen to become an Energy Capital. Thinks that is a euphemism. Energy in world terms heavily dependent on oil and gas. Nuclear, wind and solar power generally kept going by government subsidies, while oil industry is a profit generator. Impact of oil industry on Aberdeen.
(0:41:41) Fabulous. Influx of capital and infrastructure, all funded by oil. People from all parts of world settled in Aberdeen. Not just Americans, people from many places appreciated quality of life in Aberdeen, and stayed here. Oil business has added to that quality. Have they been affected by Aberdeen attitude of having done enough? Possibly. Not the warmest of places, but one of the safest. Recalls in 1969 there were probably three restaurants in Aberdeen, had to be in top society to get a booking. Now much wider selection. 2008-9 Freelance writer. Became 60 in 2008. Always said he would retire then, but still working seven years later. Bernie Vincent article in Press & Journal, and wanted to record history of North Sea oil, looking for stories. Triggered idea to write down his thoughts from the first job he did in oil industry at ASCO. Strange new industry. After writing one chapter, Bernie encouraged him to write a second one. About technical matters, how agricultural machinery was used to cut the drilling mud. But Bernie wanted shorter stories that would work online, so asked John Milne if he had thought of writing a book? Nobody had written about the early days of the oil industry from 1967-73. Managed to write whole book in about three months, on a laptop computer. Found publisher, sold quite well on local basis, because a local story. But got good feedback from overseas. Publisher went bust, book came to a halt. Can now download it from Amazon online. Back to working for Hampco again more recently. Officially retired 2008. Went on round world trip to say thanks to his friends abroad. They said you can't go away, we need you, to tap into his memory or contacts. Glad to oblige, but not full time job.
(0:51:41) Explains about oil companies as clients. Now considers himself to be part of oil business, not an outsider, but did not feel an insider till started to write about it. Now contribute to Oil Pro website. Started in Houston with industry professionals offering their views. Enjoys being asked his opinion. Noted Shell were bureaucratic, nice people, first people with an HR dept. BP seemed more efficient, got by with less people. American companies even more efficient. Into outsourcing from early days. Hamilton Brothers were a cheap outfit. Amoco always on a tight budget. Best one he liked working with was Chevron. Have an enlightened approach to business. Everything geared towards production and profit, but don't forget the human side. Impressed him most. Not yet a millionaire himself, enough to live on. Happy. May be millionaire shortly because property prices going up. Not a natural entrepreneur, full admiration for people who have that. Not envious. North Sea oil industry could not have succeeded without people like him?
(0:56:56) Less from him. Mentions Jimmy Gallan and Jimmy Simpson, key roles in developing ASCO in early days of oil industry. Farm servants working without any training or aids, but they got the job done. Jimmy Gallan and staff of four produced 500 tons of barytes in a week, and that kept well going that became the Arbroath Field. First discovery, not disclosed till about seven years later. Mentions again his involvement in sending out 150 tons of Brine to what became the Argyll Field. Both episodes, without work of Jimmy Gallan and his crew, would not have happened - critical to North Sea development, work might have drifted away, drilling companies might have pulled out. Industry should have gone to Dundee, much better port facilities. But Dundee airport was poor. Had comparable hotels and schools. Significant difference was working attitudes between people in Dundee and Aberdeen. Heard stories from BP that dockers there always insisted on minimum 11 man 8-hour shifts, more expensive. Dock labour hold stronger in Dundee than in Aberdeen. People here, like Jimmy Gallan, worked harder. Old-fashioned farm stock, only way to work is flat out attitude. Can do attitude for clients. If you went to someone in Dundee, like Sidlaw Industries, everything had to be decided in meetings. ASCO not alone, Barracks had similar squad. Again mostly farm labourers that worked hard and got things done, we were pleased to do it. Dundee and Aberdeen only options available for marine support. Only 1972 before ASCO Peterhead base conceived and not finished till 1974. Working attitudes in Aberdeen were what made the difference.
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