| Description | Interview with Mrs Mary Hogg, recorded on 1 February 1985 by Marjory Harper.
Transcript of Interview :
M You graduated in 1917, so most of your time at University was during the First World War. How did the war affect life in the University or did you not notice much effect?
H It wasn't too noticeable or anything really. Of course you came straight from school to university life which is a totally different life. You had a lot of free time whereas you didn't have so much of that at school, I mean as a senior pupil.
M Did you start university before the war had begun?
H We called our exams intermediate and higher. It wasn't '0' level and 'A' level but I think that's what it was equivalent to. The '0' level would be the Intermediate Leaving Certificate; that's for those who weren't going on further and the 'A' level would be equivalent with the Higher Leaving; that's for those who do go on to university. You do a year, of course, of training on the top of your M.A. - your lectures, from the tiny ones right up to the seniors, and you get a Teacher's Certificate, and my one said very promising. So from there I went on to apply for a post in teaching and the first one I had was Oldmeldrum. I was a short time at Oldmeldrum but it was simply an '0' levels school - the intermediate and I thought I would like to teach in a higher leaving, so I applied and got into Airdrie Academy. But I went to university on the strength of bursary, a bursary in the Bursary Competition, you knew that. I tried the Bursary Competition and secured a good bursary - four years of a Crombie Town Council bursary -that was the name of the bursary, and I think I got Airdrie Academy because they were very keen on presenting pupils for the Glasgow Bursary Competition and I was asked if I had any knowledge of that sort of teaching, you see, because it's more special pupils, you see, that you select to go in for the bursary thing and it meant that maybe you needed to take them a while after school or something. I used to sometimes take them to my own digs and give them a brush up you know for the Bursary Competition, and one year we had the fourth bursar, supposed to be very good. But I don'-t know how it is - you stay a number of years and then you veer home again, and that's when I saw Turriff Academy, which is close to my home or within motoring distance, and by this time I had a small car of my own, so I applied for this and got it and it was also Modern Language. So that's all the teaching posts I had.
M Where did you go to school yourself?
H Inverurie Academy and Gordon Schools, Huntly.
M Did many people win bursaries from the Gordon Schools to Aberdeen? [It seems that Mrs Hogg thought she was asked whether people came from the surrounding district to the Gordon Schools].
H Oh yes there was quite a number came from the rural district by train to Huntly. My home was in Insch and even from the surrounding part of Insch about 12 or 14 went, and just the other day I lost a good friend at one of the Church of Scotland homes where we used to get our lunch -a Mrs Pirie; she was 107. I'm sure I am right in saying that, I'm sure she was 107. She did all the cooking herself and everything. That's where we got our lunch and then I think most of us got a good meal when we went home at night.
M Did many girls go to university from your school or was it mainly boys?
H I think that the girls were in the majority, yes I-think so. You mean from our district or in the class?
M Well from your district. In the Gordon schools.
H Oh in the Gordon Schools. Now how many were there. The Gordon boys then somebody Gordon from Christchurch farm, all the Gordon family, I think they were half and half.
M And what about in your classes at university, what was the ratio of male to female?
H In the actual class, oh I think just much the same, almost half, 50% boys and girls. Of course they wouldn't have been the age where they had to go to the forces then. In the Second World War it was different you see, because the lads were of calling up age then. This lot wouldn't have been. I don't know what age they were called up at.
M So you don't think the First World War had a big impact on the University in terms of altering the ratios?
H No, I wouldn't have thought so. It was more the Second World War that you saw [that] every other face was a coloured, well not every other, but a good many coloured chaps, coloured people, male and female.
M Were there many overseas students at university when you were there then?
H Yes in the second .... no, there were very few when I went first of all. Lone Liang; he went in for Law; he was a Chinaman; no, very few actually.
M So it was quite an exception to see a coloured face.
H Yes, it was quite a different thing in the Second War.
M What do you think brought about that change?
H I don't know except that it was just that I think British learning was supposed to be .... They seemed to come here to qualify and go back to practice, so I think it was just that the .... and then their governments I think were giving grants suitable to allow them to stay in this country. I think it was a question of encouragement from their governments. That would maybe be a question more political.
M Did you always want to be a teacher right from before you left school? When did you first decide that you were going to be a teacher?
H Well actually I wanted to be a writer but there's not such a thing as chair of journalism at Aberdeen you see. The way you become a journalist is by making the tea and sweeping up the floor and things like that. You begin in a journalist's office. No, I did my -together, I always felt this urge to write something and it sort of naturally came to me when I was maybe doing my English essay or that, to do a poem. I always felt that I wanted to rhyme, to do something in rhyme, you know, sort of poetry. That was the way that this little book was [written], a lot of these were during my time at university. They were all in papers, the local paper and magazines.
M And then published by the Press and Journal in 1923 in a booklet.
H Yes. It got quite a good review from the Banffshire Journal and the Press and Journal of course. And I had another review of "Lost Hope"; I've lost sight of it - I don't know where it is. There was one or two papers spoke about them quite ... but I never thought and at least I was led to believe that there is not much chance of making a living out of writing, especially at that time, unless you are a sort of Barbara Cartland or Catherine Cookson sort of body and they must be millionaires nearly. I suppose she laughs at people buying her sort of ... Barbara Cartland.
M Perhaps. Could you tell me something about your teachers at university.
H Yes I was very fortunate in my Professor. There was Professor Scholle - he was a born Frenchman. He was a very good French lecturer. Was it a chair, no it wouldn't be.
M Not in his time.
H And there was Dr Lees. He was I think an Ayrshire man. He was very good; that was the German, Dr Lees was the German. I was supposed to be about the best at German in the class, and English was Professor Jack; he was a great eccentric. He would say, "Oh, Miss Massie, stay behind a behind a little after the lecture" - and this was me. I wondered what on earth I was going to have done. Urging me to go in for Honours English. So there was always just that little bit of
M What was your favourite subject?
H I think it was German really. I think it was so much akin to North East Scotland dialect, I think that was why I liked it. It came very naturally - "Sprachgefuhl" - if you like the language. I liked it.
M Did you study anything else? That was English, French and German.
H Yes, History. I took the M.A. degree in History. You require seven [subjects] but my chum Isobel Fraser - she's been my chum all through -we took Political Economy, Theory and Art of Education (and what else -there was something) over and above the seven compulsory. You require seven compulsory subjects for an M. A. degree. Was it seven? These were extra. It was a Mr Forrester for Political Economy and Dr John Clarke (he was quite a famous man) for Theory and Art of Education. He sort of taught you how true .... to draw out education you know the derivation of the word...
M So did the different teachers try to persuade you to take their subjects as your main subject?
H Oh I think it was always pretty certain that I would take French and German. Even the senior teacher, even the school teachers Miss Yule and Dr Diverres. They I think made up their minds that I was going to do that. They never tried to put you off or never to put you on anything, never to pressurise in any way anything - you should do this or you should do that. No, it was quite a natural leaning I had for language.
M Did most of your contemporaries who came to university come to Aberdeen or did they go further afield?
H Well to .teach?
M No, to university itself.
H Well, we had a handbook; I suppose I still have it. Oh, they came from all over. Very many of them came from the high far north. There were quite a few from Stornoway and up that way you know, but there were a great many locals, there were some [like] Mabel Cowie from the Manse of Maud - she. is Lesley Storm you know, "Roar like a dove"; she made heaps of money out of that and lives in a villa in France, she's well to do. Then Eric Linklater was a colleague; he's a writer of course. He was editor of the Times of India and of course "Juan in America" and all these famous novels. Boothby used to come to the varsity a bit.
M In your time?
H Not as a student, no, but I don't think he was [a student]. Was he a rector or was he down for a rectorship or something, I just can't remember, but he came to a lot of the functions and he used to spend some time with Major Hay of Seaton and he used to have a room from my folk, my people had an hotel and he used to phone up and say "Book me the same room", to my father, and they were quite friendly, the two of them. He's still alive - I saw him on the T.V. the other night. I think he is about 84. I think he has celebrated about 60 years in Parliament. He is now in the House of Lords of course. He married a lady from Sardinia. I have never once seen them together you know. You often see a politician and their wife together. Some people used to say "Fancy going away to Sardinia for a wife, you know".
M Where did you live when you were at university? Did you have digs?
H Yes, mother always came and selected, every year was a new place I think because, well I had been accustomed to very good cooking and that you know [so I was] always anxious that it should be kind of decent cooking. Orchard Place to be near King's was one place, and another time it was Bon Accord Street, 41 Bon Accord Street. Just a bedsit, just an ordinary... and you took your pal there or we went to her place and back and fore like that.
M Where did most students live? Did they tend to live round King's or all over town?
H Just all were in digs. There were just landladies known to be good student landladies over a period of years and I suppose some of them got to know of them. I didn't know of any of them but we just put an advert in the papers and then mother went to see the places that they had written about and that's how I ever was in a place, but I just usually stayed the year - I liked to change over.
M So the university didn't help you find accommodation? You had to do that yourself?
H No, they don't. There were no halls of residence, not a single one and look how many there are now. I don't know what the students [do], the students don't have landladies now. Landladies won't have students, I don't know - they've gone quite against them. I think a lot of it was they started to be very sort of, you know drinking a bit. Companies of them used to go together you know. Landladies used to get a bit apprehensive of guys starting fires and a lot of them got into a sort of way they couldn't go to bed safely until they saw the last one in.
But there was one or two landladies that specialised in the coloured boys. They said that they were very much nicer in the house than our own white boys, I don't know how. She said there is just one thing, that they didn't mix well together the black and white in those days.
M What sort of functions did you go to?
H Oh just the usual hops. Then there was the societies you see; there was the German Society with the President, Vice President and Committees. I was always on that, somewhere in it and we had papers, we got people to give a paper. You had to hunt about for people to address the Society.
M That was French and German Societies?
H Yes.
M Do you think the First World War affected the social life of the University?
H Well it may have done in some cases you know, I don't know. I had always my home to come back to. I never was much in Aberdeen at the weekend. I used to come home you see for the weekend on Friday and back on either Sunday night or Monday morning. You had a season ticket you know to travel, but unless there was anything well at Ring's maybe in the choir or for Messiah or something like that you would stay but otherwise I was home for the weekend. So I was really quite fortunate in being not too long a distance from home. I mean people who came from Fife or those places couldn't possibly... I mean it was a consideration, train fare and the cost of coming back and fore.
M What about Freshers Week? Were there special functions then? You mentioned earlier that professors...
H Yes there were usually every day different things. You were taken to see the Duthie Park and Art Gallery and just anything of interest that would come into your, well new to you that you wouldn't otherwise have known about. It was a sort of introduction to the culture that was awaiting you.
M And did you help to organise things like that in your later years?
H Yes.
M What did you organise?
H Well there would have just been - oh, just reunions you know. Just a sort of reunion thing, parties. There were maybe private things of your own. We used to go to different musical comedy and that, one or two of us together or maybe just myself and my friend. That took up a lot of the time. That was still part of your life really.
M Can you tell me about your graduation? Was that a big day?
H Oh yes it's a big day for everybody getting the gown and everything and of course all your folk that was available near enough to you came along, and there was photographs taken for the press and private ones with your regalia you know, just the usual.
M Where was most of the teaching done? Was it in Old Aberdeen?
H Between Marischal and Ring's, yes. Marischal of course was Political Economy and Theory and Art of Education - [that] was Marischal but the other things were all Ring's. That big building - the Sacrists house and then the building - English was the first door-and History was the second door you know. And then in the quadrangle at Ring's past the cherry tree and that - this was the French and German part. So it was ell very easily got at. There was the 20 bus, that was the mainstay between Aberdeen and... But when we went for the extra classes that we took sometimes we had an awful race you know, the bell would go at Marischal and you had to rush on in the 5 minutes to get to Ring's.
M Could we talk about finance for a minute. You said you won a bursary. Was that sufficient to cover your university career?
H Well it helped a great deal towards the price of the digs. It practically paid my digs I think.
M Can you remember how much you paid for your digs?
H £60 I think it was. £60 for the four years. You got it for the four years - you got it for the training year as well if I remember right. Yes you did. And of course money went much further then. It was a lot of money. My brothers also had bursaries.
M Can you tell me a bit about your brothers; what they did at university, when they were there?
H Well they were just the ordinary routine of male student. They had their societies like the law and that you know, and then they had their social. I believe that the men had more social life than really the ladies, the girls had.
M Why do you think that was?
H I think that somehow they were more sociable as a crowd. They went a few of them to football and they had their sport and that you see. Both my brothers were great sportsmen. There was cricket at Mannofield and soccer and that, and their time was a lot taken up with that. I didn't bother much with that sort of side of it.
M What sort of facilities were there for women to take part in sport?
H Well I dare say there was the hockey and the tennis. I suppose there was all that you know, just ordinary women's pastimes.
M How do you think women were regarded in 1917 when you were at university?
H I don't think there was anything unusual. I don't think there was much competition between the sexes at all - they were very co-operative. The men that we knew I think we were very proud to have landed in the same sort of classes with them you know, they were food to know.
M Did you ever take a holiday job to help you through university?
H My goodness, there was plenty to do at home I can tell you. Well at home at the hotel we were usually busier in the summer time you know. I had an awful job to get my mother to consent to go away for a week to Cullen or some place. They weren't accustomed to going holidays. They were always frightened the thing wouldn't be properly conducted you know, when they were away. It was very unusual for them to try and get away together anywhere. I remember one time there was a Masonic thing on and I had come home and mother said Dad just doesn't think that he would like to go to the Masonic dance because there was one of the maids she was courting and the lad always seemed to turn up when their backs were turned as usually happens. I said "Good gracious, I'll look after that - away you go the pair of you", and I remember the policeman - that's the one she was courting, he came in and when he cleared the place I said "Now it's all finished, you can go too", and this was supposed to be good. He said "she's nay even putting the customers out - she is putting the bobby out."
M Do you still keep in touch with people you were at university with?
H Oh yes, quite a few. At Christmas time there's always a... you know the ones that you sort of made friends of, real friends.
M You mentioned Eric Linklater. Were there any other well-known contemporaries?
H Well there's George Fraser; he has had a column every Saturday. 'One mans week' is the name of it, it's very good. He gets his germ of an idea from the top of a bus or hearing a couple of wifies talking about something you know, about Princess Margaret or something. Then he makes his column just out of nothing. I had a letter from him at Christmas time; he says "I must salute you with your wish to become a student again, but I do think it's a very good thing for you" - because well, we are just about equal - the same age. He is in his 89th and so am I. I think I sat in front of him at Logic class, Logic, Psychology and Metaphysics, that was another of my subjects. Then, mind you I would like to... I see it's in there, Sociology. Can you tell me anything about Sociology?
M Going back to talking about women. Did you have any .female teachers when you were at university?
H Female? Yes there was an assistant to the German Professor, Matilda Ewan, I think she was on the General Council. She was a very enterprising, very good she was, Miss Ewan, very helpful.
M Did you have any Foreign Assistants teaching in the French and German?
H Foreign Assistants, no. No foreigners at all. No, I can't recollect ever having seen a coloured doctor about, and you know how many there are now round Foresterhill - almost every second white coat has a brown face. There was another outstanding person, Mary Esslemont. You've heard of her of course. She got the freedom of the city two years ago. I don't know if she is still in good health or not. There was a while that she was in an hospital of some kind. I think she had in the papers she wouldn't be sending any Christmas stuff out but that she wished all her friends...
M She actually died.
H Oh she did. Oh Mary Esslemont's dead, I didn't notice that. Was it last year? Yes, she was very approachable, a great Liberal, a very staunch Liberal and a very plain .person. You would never have known that she had a string of degrees or that you know. She just seemed to take them like as easy as wink. Is she the same Esslemont as Esslemont & Mackintosh? I think so. Yes, we did know her, she made herself known to everyone. In fact I think she gave one of the addresses to some of the societies about something or other.
M Did you go to meetings in the University Union?
H I didn't have much cause to be using the union much. I think we rather preferred to avoid the union a bit - rather go to some nice cafe or something you know if you could afford it. But there wasn't much pocket money you know. But I do remember a chap, I think he became quite brilliant in his later day, Mitchell, his father was station master at Dyce, and he was always sitting drunk in the Union, absolutely spiffed right up to the eyes, and such a blow to his folk, you know. And then we had another character, Sam Bodie that was Dr Bodies son. Dr Bodie, you know, the one that sawed women in two [at the] Tivoli. But he was a chronic; he took seven or eight years to go through or maybe more, but he did [manage?].
M But he did medicine?
H I've met him yes.
M Medicine did he?
H Medicine yes. He took much longer than usual, but he did manage to get an M.B., Ch. B. Whether he got a post, we never heard much about him afterwards.
M What did you do during Charities Week? Did you get involved with that at all?
H I don't think that I rattled a can. I think I was a bit of a... holding back doing that sort of thing. But the Charity Show, I was always in that, in the dancing chorus.
M Where was that held?
H His Majesty's, in the theatre, always in the theatre. A week, it was always a week. And then there was the Torcher at the end of it you know, going about round the town with decorated lorries with the medical one and the other one. I never went on one of those but I did rattle my can that night. We were all supposed to do our bit for the final, but I enjoyed the charities show; I always went there.
M Did you get big audiences?
H Yes they were always over... Yes it was good.
M What sort of relationship was there between the University and the City of Aberdeen?
H Oh very good, yes - town and gown. Yes I must say it was good.
M Dr Mary Esslemont thought that maybe students didn't get terribly involved in the life of the city. Would you agree with that or would you say that in your time students were involved in the community?
H I don't think that they were actively much involved in it. There weren't any demonstrations sort of things about anything. There didn't seem to be any confrontation about anything you know. It seemed to be a peaceable sort of institution all the time. I can't remember anything unruly really or anything objectionable much. I mind there was some of them putting a statue or something or other - an effigy or something on the top of Marischal. Somebody climbed - somebody Ludowick. (I don't know if he was German or not - it's a German name.) A student, they said it was he who was the principal factor in getting that on to Marischal. Yes, the town seemed to be very much - very proud of the students I think. A lot of them aren't now, I don't know why. Of course maybe they did get a sort of reputation for being rowdy after a bit. I think maybe as they got more money into their hands they maybe got more... different tastes you know, and that, and how to use it in a wrong way - I don't know. But there was a sort of -you might say not such a good feeling a while, they wouldn't have been... maybe not so agreeable. But as far as collecting money they always took their part, students did I think.
M How do you think students' attitudes have changed since you were at university? Do you think they are more. responsible or are they any' different from when you were at university?
H I think they're more independent. I think they are not so keen to accept authority, they are a little bit more... make their own thing you know out of it. I couldn't say about it really.
M Did you enjoy your time at university?
H Yes, very much yes. I enjoyed the friendship of a few.
M What do you think you learned most from it, not just academically but in a broader way?
H Well I think facing the public. But I had learned to do that in our own business you know. I'd learned to face the public quite early in my life. That's how I sort of managed to go into my fifth year here. I am in my fifth year now. [at Balnagask Eventide Home]. Just by sort of making the best of everything and just facing up to everything and not be afraid to speak out, speak your mind - because one of my friends is a retired minister; he says I think something must have sent you to Balnagask.
M Were you given any careers guidance at university?
H No we weren't but when I went to teach at Airdrie you were supposed to take your turn at being careers mistress. This was going by the marks that the seniors made, those who were making for a career outside. You would go by their marks and tell them if you thought they were in the right track. You asked what they wanted to be and you'd tell them by their marks and their type of paper that they put to you whether they were going to succeed or not, and the boys always seemed to want to be bankers and get into a bank or insurance or I think business. None of them seemed to want to be schoolmasters - funny they never seemed to say they would like to teach. Male teachers weren't so common.
M What did most of the girls do for careers, those girls who were at university with you?
H Well a lot of them put down that they wanted to be hairdressers and some of them wanted to be secretaries like their mother was, and one or two wanted to be teachers, and one or two doctors. There was a sprinkling of every kind, there was more variety amongst the girls. The lads wanted just to have a good job, a banker or insurance or something stable like that. They never... professions... vets one or two wanted to be, veterinary surgeon and doctors. [Mrs Hogg is referring to her pupils at Airdrie Academy, not to her contemporaries at university].
M The people who were along with you - your own contemporaries at university - the ladies - what did they go in for?
H Teaching, mostly teaching.
M Was there anything else that was open to them?
H There wasn't really, no. There wasn't anything else. A lot of them married farmers very young but they didn't practice their teaching until the call came for married teachers to come back to work in school. There was a time when there was no... would that be the Second World War they were asked to go back - the married teachers to go back .to teaching, and they rallied round then. A lot of them went back.
M How common was it for a married women to continue her career after she was married?
H Very seldom. They either didn't marry at all or if they did marry they stayed at home and a lot of them were very prone to marry farmers. Teachers it seemed to be farmers or footballers - one or two married footballers, and they usually go in for pubs when they retire. They have a short life footballers, a short career, so they often went in for licensed premises.
M You continued your career, is that right?
H Yes.
M How was that regarded, did people think that was a novel thing to do or were you frowned on for carrying on?
H You see I got compassionate leave when my mother died. Dad went quite to bits, and until he came round again I carried on the thing you see, and the doctor was required to give on soul and .conscience that it was a very deserving case mine was. So I really felt that I wanted to teach - besides it was a help to others you see.
M And you continued to teach after you were married?
H Yes.
M And was that...
H No that wasn't looked upon, that was looked upon as quite...
H It was a thing during the war that married women (you know, munitions) were out working - well I think it just spread to teaching, it just was general. I think that was the way that it came about, and it's quite common now for, you know, even with Open University women going in for... or fishmarket porters go in for jobs, so that they are both working at the scholastic jobs you know. You find in many a family man and woman in the teaching profession. They seem to think that they require with the price of everything going up and up and up that they required a second job, and now they're saying they're needing another job to pay for the prescriptions that some of them need for what they contracted during the war - malaria and that, you know, out East. It's a shame that they should have to pay - people that... but I suppose there is a reason for everything.
M You said that there were some women teachers in the university when you were there. Why do you think they came to be accepted so early in the universities?
H Well of course a lot of them were taking the place of men called up. I suppose men had gone to the war you see so that women replaced them and just remained there.
M Do you think the war then had a big effect on the staff at the university?
H Yes I do think, I don't think it could help doing that, I think it would. Cause there is quite a number of women now in the university compared with... if you look up the records you find it.
M So, going back to your contemporaries at university - your own classes. Did most of them come from the city and county of Aberdeen and from the north; did any come from say England?
H Not unless they'd had a relation or something in the town to see to them or look after them. No, I don't think it was common, it wouldn't have been a common thing. Its not as it is today - sometimes they can't get a place where they want, they apply somewhere else. I don't think there was ever such a shortage that they were ever refused a place. Now the Open University says they have places they can never fill because there are so many people wanting places that they haven't got places for them.
M For students who didn't win bursaries, how did they manage to pay their way through university?
H Well there was a sort of general fund of some kind, I can't remember the name of it, but there was the Drum Bursary and that was for those who had Irvine in their name; and there was the Milne Bequest - that's those who are Milne, but you felt better if you had won it I think. But then you had help with Carnegie you see, with the fees. You got your docket every now and again for the fees but your bursary didn't cover everything, but if you were fortunate enough to have your home in Aberdeen or within walking or even bussing distance of your home it was a help - it was a saving.
M Where did your brothers live when they came to university?
H Oh just the same, just in digs, various digs. The one that died, the one that had multiple sclerosis, and the doctor one, they stayed together and they used to throw their lunch sometimes over the dyke it was so bad.
M The lunch that was provided in the digs?
H Yes. There were no places that you could go. Yes, there was a canteen of course but if you weren't there very very early - 12 or so, or round about you didn't get steak pie or anything, there was nothing but baked beans left.
M Where was the canteen?
H It must have been at King's I think, the canteen. And then there was a very favourite eating house - at least cafe, Jacks cafe in Old Aberdeen, just an ordinary shop converted into seats you know and very often the proprietor there gave the students a sub you know.
M Where was that? Was it in the High Street?
H Yes in the High Street just a wee bit up from Ring's, a wee bitty up, not far from the Town House, the big square Town House.
M Did you go there?
H Sometimes we just, we didn't go there of constraint - I mean we couldn't go anywhere else but just to see some of the rest of the students. It was a popular meeting place for students, Jacks. Meet at Jacks - discussing exams and things.
M Apart from that where did students congregate mostly to discuss?
H Digs I think, backwards and forwards between one another's digs and if we had arranged to go to some picture you know or some film or some musical comedy or that we would meet at the Monkeyhouse or somewhere like that.
M What were the favourite societies in the university when you were there - the most popular ones?
H I think whatever their favourite subjects were, they just supported their society - that was about the stretch of it. If you were keen on German you never missed the meetings of the German, French and I really did like History. There would be a very nice lecturer there, a Miss Elder - did you know her? Of course Terry was very musical. Professor Terry - he was the Professor of History. He was a bit of a composer himself I think. He was very kenspeckle - he wore a cloak. Very kenspeckle fellow, nice very nice. He stayed at Cults.
M And he tried to persuade you to do History?
H Yes, he was very keen but I think he was just recruiting some students
o that he thought would make a go of it. He was just suggesting, it was just a suggestion. I suppose I did good enough papers you know. I think if you are good at English you're good at most things if you've got a good command of English. Even here you know it's looked askance if anyone, a visitor or anything talking properly - they should talk
_ Torry. Prof. and Mrs Souter were very hospitable people. They always had the first year (you know the freshers) up for a nice meal and games. We had drawing room games and just an introduction to varsity life where you met the others that were also freshers. He is the only one actually that I can say, I wasn't at any other professors. I don't think it was made a custom; they didn't make a habit of it. I think Prof. Souter was recognised as just a sort of the father of the new comers, a fatherly sort of interest that he took in you during the week and of course there were bus loads of you taken to see the Winter Gardens if it was there at the time, I think it was, and other places of interest like Hazlehead and the beach and, oh yes, Harry Gordon was a special attraction too for students. There were always crowds supporting Harry Gordon. Of course he was very good at bringing out young artistes, London artistes. They've often started life with Harry Gordon at the Beach Pavilion.
M Were there any real eccentrics when you were at university amongst the staff and the students?
H Yes there was one or two of the Professors I think - was it Moral Phil. the Moral Phil. man, MacDonald was it? [D.M. Mackinnon] His wife used to phone the, secretary and ask the Moral Phil. students if Mr MacDonald had his trousers on because he left [the] house, the maid thought, with his pyjamas and his overcoat, and very often it happened to be that he had one boot and one shoe, absent minded you know. The Zoology man, Prof. Arthur Thomson, he was a very loveable character. He used to - you know the dais is raised up a bit, and then there's the desk - he used to parade along and he would step, step until he would... and the next one would have been down on the floor, and the "oooh" went up. And another time they took a chicken in to another Professor. He was so absent minded he wouldn't have seen the thing.
M Alive chicken?
H Alive chicken, with its wings you know - devilment. Oh they were quite a happy crowd. I thought it was good fortune to land amongst that.
M So you enjoyed your university career?
H Oh yes very much. I enjoyed that George Fraser specially - the one that writes every Saturday. He's still going strong.
M Was there ever any idea in your mind that you might have gone to a different university or did everybody assume if they came from Aberdeenshire they would go to Aberdeen?
H Oh I-think that once you tried the Bursary Comp. and got a place you just thought that was your Alma Mater you know, that that was your roots, your roots were there. Oh yes. I never thought that any other university was better than it. Are they, I don't know. They specialise - what's Edinburgh? Edinburgh is something and St. Andrews is something, Aberdeen is ....
M Was that the general feeling amongst people in the North-East?
H It was the general... Very loyal. Oh yes. I don't think they thought any other place was better, no.
M So it would have been a rare event for somebody to go down to England to university?
H Oh I don't think there would ever have been any chance of them going from Aberdeen to England unless it was for a specially English degree. I mean something with an English flavour about it, something that you had to be there to get. I don't think that there was anything that you could study but what you could get the best treatment than Aberdeen. It has a very good name.
M So if you had your university career to start now would you still choose Aberdeen?
H Oh yes. I don't know any other university you know. I think if you have had your schooling there and your home I think you never look beyond it.
End of Interview
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