| Administrative History | Mrs Jones was a former Aberdeen University student |
| Description | Interview with Mrs Bronwen J. Jones recorded on 5 September 1986, by Dorothy Johnston
Transcript of Interview :
J Can I ask you to begin with why did you come to Aberdeen University?
BJ My mother's family lived in Echt, north of Aberdeen and migrated to Kent in the 1880s and we've always kept the connection here, there were always relations here. Although my father was Welsh he was the one who having been to Aberdeen and seen King's College especially wanted one of his children to come here. And I was the one that wanted to come here so that fitted in very well.
J Had you ever been here on holiday?
BJ Almost every year, perhaps alternate years. I had an uncle who was in general practice here and that family used to come to us in South Wales one year and we would come up here the next.
J Are you Welsh speaking?
BJ I speak a little Welsh.
J And you did then?
BJ No. I've learned it since I retired
J What did your school think of your coming so far north to university?
BJ At first my headmistress was appalled. She said we thought Bronwyn would go to Oxford or Cambridge or at least London. But when she came to terms with it she was quite delighted and on each speech day afterwards she said how interesting it was now had an old girl there at a Scottish university. I was the first but there have been many since.
J Was it a decision that you felt had been right in retrospect?
BJ Yes, as far as the sheer happiness of the four years that I had here, it must have been right. Whether my academic success was the same here as it would have been any where else I couldn't possibly judge but I was very happy.
J What courses did you start?
BJ Honours English with supplementary subjects, History, Moral Philosophy and Political Economy.
J Did you opt for Honours early on?
BJ Yes. I always hoped to read Honours. I don't think I would have enjoyed the general Arts course. It was very broad.
J I have had a subject just mention the difficulty of Maths and Natural Philosophy in the general Arts course, I wondered if that was a consideration to you?
BJ I think I would have found it very difficult but my interest was in English and I wanted to do an Honours degree.
J How did the system work? Did you know when you came to Aberdeen that you'd be allowed to read Honours?
BJ No. You knew at the end of your first year. You then asked Professor Jack in those days, he said those who wish to read Honours should come to see him. Of course you could tell pretty well from your position in the class list, I was third in the class list so I knew there wasn't going to be any problem there.
J How was the class list determined? Was that by class exam?
BJ I think our essays must have come into it but it was mainly …
J You did regular essays for …?
BJ Yes.
J Was that always for Professor Jack or for assistants?
BJ No. There was a Margaret Black used to mark our essays. Sometimes she was an assistant. There were other people, of course, there was a Mr Taylor who specialised in the eighteenth century and Alistair MacKenzie who was the Old English but I didn't have anything to do with him until I was well into the Honours course where we did Old English and Middle English.
J So you did that as well, the Old English and Middle English?
BJ You had to do that for Honours, yes.
J Can you tell me anything out Professor Jack as a lecturer?
BJ He was a great entertainer. I think he was scholarly too and he was a very beautiful reader of poetry mostly and of prose, but one sometimes felt that his lectures were more entertainments than scholarly dissertations. We were just remembering at lunchtime how he said no-one could remember dinner time a propos of what. That he suddenly said with great spreading of his gowned arms 'If I was suddenly to fly out of that window, you would be surprised'. We used to have that sort of entertainment in the lecturers. His lectures were always packed and very much enjoyed.
J The lectures were shared were they by students doing the general course, some of them?
BJ Yes. One read what they called ordinary English. In the first year the Honours people were all there and then in your second year there were people who were in second year Honours and those who were reading advanced English: they were together. Then our last two years we would just be English people Some people read joint degrees, English and History or ... They're not doubles, they missed some parts of the course is you opted to take a joint degree.
J For History was it Professor Black?
BJ Yes.
J Have you any comment to make about him as a lecturer? Was he comparable to Jack?
BJ No, not at all. He was much more consciously facetious I would say and made puns and that sort of thing. He wasn't an interesting lecturer.
J No, I've heard the same comment.
BJ If you missed a lecture, if you borrowed someone's notes you got absolutely everything that you wanted from it. There was nothing intangible, which a good lecturer would give you.
J You mentioned missing lectures. Was this something that occurred often or with impunity?
BJ It depended very much I think on the lecturers. Moral Philosophy it was Professor Laird and you wouldn't miss any of his lectures or he wouldn't give you a class certificate.
J What was Laird like as a lecturer?
BJ Excellent.
J He would have that extra quality?
BJ Made his subject always very interesting but he was a very severe man. He didn't take to jokes at all, either way making them or receiving them. For some reason, I can't remember why, but someone had put a bunch of daffodils on his desk, whether it was his birthday or what it was, and I can remember he just came in and he picked them up and put them in the wastepaper basket. No comment at all.
J Behaviour in the classroom, was that generally very good? Did students show their boredom?
BJ There might have been a bit of stamping of feet, but no, the behaviour was very good. I remember another thing of Professor Jack's, of his saying I have a note here from some of the students who suggested, it was a twelve o'clock class, that we do not hold class on a Wednesday. I think it would have been because there was an important football match and he said no doubt this was a very important occasion but he said the football match and my lecture do not occur at the same hour. The match was in the afternoon but of course people wanted to go away and enjoy it. And then there was great barracking and so on, and he compromised, he said he would close the lecture early.
J So there was barracking in the lecture room?
BJ Yes. A very cheerful sort of stamping, nothing bad tempered at all
J Outside the classroom do you recall any incidents where disciplinary action perhaps was taken? About ragging for instance, we hear a lot about ragging. Was that something you had to endure?
BJ No, not at all. Wasn't conscious of it all. One was conscious of the fact that the men students were not supposed to wear plus fours in their first year and if they did there would be some debagging nonsense.
J Not supposed by whom?
BJ By tradition.
J It was nothing to do with the college authorities?
BJ No.
J So their fellow students would know what action to take?
BJ Yes.
J As women, were you then removed from some of the things that were going on in college? Were you aware of being isolated from things?
BJ Definitely not. We had no feeling of isolation at all.
J You sat in the front of the class is that correct?
BJ Not in English. The men sat in the front. We sat in alphabetical order and there was a system where the person at the end of each row answered ad sumus for his row.
J So you always sat in the same place?
BJ In theory, but if you were not a proctor I forget the name. But we knew each other, it was very small university, and if you happened to be sitting with your friend who was called McTavish when you're called Buchan the person at the end of your row where you should have been knew and would say ad sumus for you In other lectures, I think in Moral Philosophy women did sit in the front, perhaps they did in most of the lecturers.
J But not in Professor Jack's?
BJ No. I think he preferred the sight of the men.
J What about social things in college, were you aware there of a distinction?
BJ A distinction of what kind?
J Were there societies you couldn't belong to?
BJ No. Certainly nothing one wanted to belong to. It was extremely cheap. I think you paid, of course latterly your Union subscription covered everything didn't it but that wasn't so in my day. I think each society which you belonged to cost a shilling and that was very cheap even in those days. For that you got your little programme. I myself belonged to the Dramatic Society and the Literary Society and then latterly I joined the Socialist Club which was not an acknowledged university society. I don't know whether political societies were not allowed, I don't remember at all but I do know that the Socialist Society was not allocated a room in the university and we used to meet in a pub somewhere, I can't remember where.
J What sort of things did you discuss? Was it very much a discussion society, debating society?
BJ The Socialists?
J Yes.
BJ I can't remember very much about it. I think we were learning about Marxists theories and so on but how it was structured I can't remember. I think we would have had lectures. A lot of our lecturers, certainly in the Literary Society were students, we did our own thing. Of course I belonged to The Debater but I wasn't an active debater. I was president of the Literary Society in my last year and I was a very active member of the Dramatic Society.
J How did the Dramatic Society tie up with the students show? Was there any connection at all?
BJ Very loosely, because the people who were most interested in drama belonged to that and so they tended to have the plum, the speaking parts in the show.
J But did the Dramatic Society put on anything during the same period that the show was on?
BJ No.
J So there was no sense of rivalry or the best talent being used?
BJ No. There were auditions for the show in my time. It had been Northern Lights for some years. I never saw Northern Lights. The first year there was a sort of mini Northern Lights called Aurora Borealis which was in the Beach Pavilion not in the Theatre. I don't remember why, whether it was financial or whether there was lack of talent. I wasn't in that I went on Concert Party that year.
J Concert Party, what form did your entertainment take? I thought they were mainly musical.
BJ We would have a group of people who could sing and dance and act and we also took a band and we had a bus. The band was professional. The Concert Party would consist of very simple dancing, singing and little sketches, little humorous bits, just ordinary pier types of thing
J That is very interesting. It might be nice to hear more about that later. I'm afraid to spend too much time on it because there are other things we must look at. For instance your living conditions.
BJ My first year I lived at Hilton Hostel which was for what we then called the TC, the Teachers Training College, because my parents thought I was young to go off into lodgings because there were no halls of residence. They took about six university students, but after a year I moved with two of those students into lodgings in Rosemount Place where there was six of us. There were two pairs of sisters who shared rooms, and two of us in single rooms.
J What was that like?
BJ We had three landladies and they were absolutely wonderful. The Aberdeen landlady of my day closely identified with her students and they were competitive. It was Miss Jones has done very much better than her friend's student.
J The landladies, would their own family be in the university?
BJ We had three maiden ladies but it would be possible. I think most landladies either took men or women, I don't think in those early days that they mixed them. I didn't know of any who were mixed. Of course we were very free.
J When you say three landladies do you mean there were three adjacent houses?
BJ No. Three maiden ladies, sisters who took students. They lived at the back of the house and we had two sitting rooms and four bedrooms.
J Did they cook for you?
BJ Yes. For 22 shillings a week, and this was cheap even in those days. Maybe it was cheap for Aberdeen but I have a sister who was at London at the time and she was paying more than three times what I paid. She paid for dinner bed and breakfast, whereas I had a full lunch as well and a high tea and breakfast if you wanted it and then a supper. But if you were out for a dance there was always something left for you when you came in. There was always milk and biscuits and you put your shoes outside the door at night and they would clean them. There was a bottle put into your bed when you came in at night. Absolutely everything was done.
J Were you aware that yours was exceptional.
BJ No. This was what was what was done. We knew that we were good, that they were very good landladies, the food was good, some people obviously were not so fortunate but I would say that the impression that I had was that the standard was very high.
J Was it quite normal to go back to your lodgings at lunch time?
BJ Yes.
J There was nowhere available around King's or Marischal?
BJ You paid an all in amount so it would have been folly to spend your precious money.
J Speaking of precious money. We're speaking of a period really before grants actually began, could I ask you how did you cope, were people aware of much hardship?
BJ I think some people were. I can remember some friends …
SIDE B
This is a continuation of the interview with Mrs Bronwyn Jones.
BJ I thought my own father had rather a curious system. I don't think it was common in that he didn't give me an allowance at all. He simply gave me a post office savings book in which he had made a deposit and when I felt that this was getting low I sent it home and he paid more money in and posted it back again. So that he knew how fast I was spending my money but he made no restrictions ever on the amount I spent and it made me extremely economical.
J Would you mind my asking you, if you can even remember, to give us a rough idea what student expenses were like?
BJ I should think that an average amount, of course I wouldn't take clothes into account at all because I think very few students in those days would have bought their own clothes their parents would have done that, it would have been seen to in the holidays, so it was pocket money. I think if you didn't smoke you probably spent five shillings a week I would say. The men spent more because they did take us out, we weren't expected to pay our share. You would occasionally say, especially if you knew there wasn't much money, if they were taking us to a dance or taking us to dinner first, you would give them a pound perhaps and say well spend that that's my share. But you had to know them very well before you did that or it was considered an insult.
J So that would have been the pattern would it if somebody had asked you out, it would have been to a dance perhaps?
BJ Yes. The men who could afford it might ask you out to dinner first but dinner would probably cost 3/6d each. Dances I think about the same. Of course we went to a lot of hops which were quite informal and you went by yourself. There was generally a hop on a Saturday which would stop at half past eleven because of Sunday the next day. But hops on a Friday night would go on later. You went by yourself and generally, well always I would say, somebody would take you home, somebody would ask you for the last dance.
J Would you if you by any chance hadn't got somebody taking you home would you have felt quite happy wandering about Aberdeen?
BJ Absolutely. You would have felt very disappointed but not in any way nervous.
J Our time's obviously running out and what I haven't asked you yet, you mentioned you were a member of the Socialist Club, I wonder to what extent you and your fellow students were politically aware, you were at college at a time when there was a lot beginning to happen?
BJ I would say not sufficiently politically aware. I don't think I myself realised quite what horrors were building up. I first matriculated in thirty one which was at the time of the dreadful election when the national government came in and I was staying with my uncle and aunt and Wedgewood Benn senior was the member for East Dundee and he used to stay with them when he was here and I can remember his shock to find he hadn't been returned and that was the beginning of the patch
J Would you say that you were more aware of what was happening at least in national politics?
BJ Looking back I feel I wasn't sufficiently aware and not responsible. I think we tended to have the attitude that, well I was twenty-one when I graduated, you see you didn't get the vote until you were twenty-one and you didn't really feel a part of the system.
J What about issues that were debated, you were a member of The Debater. If they were political issues would the students have been well informed and responsible in their contributions?
BJ Yes but I don't think that the standard of debating was very high. I think a lot of their subjects tended to be frivolous. I wouldn't say that it was a serious debating society. It's now over fifty years ago.
J Looking back do you feel that Aberdeen prepared you well for the career which you then chose?
BJ It didn't have a great deal to do with the career which I chose. I left university really not knowing, but I came up not knowing, it was open ended. I never said I'm going to do so and so, just that I'm going to read an Honours English degree and see what comes from that. Then I went home and taught in a private school because you could teach in England and Wales without a teaching qualification. I taught in a small school for a couple of years until I knew that I wanted to do industrial personnel management and then I went back to the London School of Economics. So that was my vocational training but I certainly wouldn't have wished to miss the education I had here because I think it was a good general background.
J Have you maintained any links with Aberdeen over the years?
BJ My daughter came back here.
J To college?
BJ Yes. She must have graduated about fourteen years ago so as long as she was here. Fortunately I had a good many relations in Aberdeen. Now I have none at all so I haven't been here for fourteen years.
J I think we've probably come to a natural end anyway.
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