| Description | Interview with Mrs Kathleen Murdoch, recorded on 22 June 2004 by Jennifer Carter.
Transcript of Interview :
[Note: Unfortunately the recording equipment was malfunctioning, so much of the interview is lost. The interviewer has interpolated in square brackets a summary of sections that are inaudible]
[KM began by confirming that she would be graduating in July 2004 with an Honours degree in History. She had come to university as a mature student, aged 40]
JC What persuaded you, four or five years ago, to come to University?
KM What happened was that when I left school I got a job at Lawson's of Dyce, as it then was …
JC The meat people?
KM Yes, I was packing meat pies into boxes, and one day I thought 'I can't do this for the rest of my life, I want an education'. So I went to the College of Commerce [Aberdeen College]
JC Can I just stop you there, you say you wanted an education, but had you left school at the very first opportunity, at 15 or 16?
KM Yes, at 16.
JC Was that by choice or necessity?
KM [She just wanted to leave, and did not consider herself a clever child]
JC How did you do in exams up until then?
KM [She did reasonably well]
JC Did nobody try and dissuade you from leaving?
KM [No one tried to persuade her to stay on at Bankhead Academy, though her father said that she would later regret her decision] In those days you could walk straight out of school into a job.
JC I suppose that in Aberdeen there was virtually no unemployment then?
KM That's right.
JC So you walked out of school straight into the job at Lawson's of Dyce, and stayed with it a long time?
KM I did leave when I got married, and had children - my husband was a soldier - but I came back [the firm changed hands and became McIntosh's, but she continued in her old job].
JC So, forgive me for having interrupted, but that was an interesting digression. So, you decided suddenly one day [when you were 40] 'I want an education'?
KM So I went to the College, I got an interview, and for some reason I thought that it would be very easy - but it was not. You had to do two classes [She chose History and another subject - she could not remember what. Despite finding the work difficult] I still wanted to go on to university.
JC Entering University by that route, from Aberdeen College, did that take you into first year of university, or straight into second year?
KM Oh no, it was first year.
JC So that's why it became a five-year course [one at the College then four at University. JC asks if she continued working at McIntosh's while attending College and University]
KM Well I worked there until the place closed down, that was last year, and then I got a job at VSA [Voluntary Services Aberdeen]during my final year.
JC You had done some History at College, and you decided to stick with that as your main subject at University?
KM Yes, that was all I ever wanted to do, History. At school when you got History exams you had to do History and Geography, it was a test you had to do, and it just so happened that I got more in my Geography than I did in History, so they said 'You can't do History, you'll have to do Geography, because you are obviously better at it'. I said 'But I don't like it, I want to do History'. But I didn't get to do History. So it was many years before I got to do what I wanted.
JC But in first year [at university] you would have had to do more than History?
KM That's right, yes. I did Celtic, and the first term I did the Rise of Christianity and in second term I did Systematics - I can't remember the proper name for it, it's in Divinity.
JC Systematic Theology?
KM That's right.
JC Would the Celtic course have been one for people who were doing Celtic Civ. [Civilization], not with the language?
KM Yes.
JC You didn't struggle with the language?
KM No.
JC I was going to say that that would have been a tall order!
KM On Saturdays I used to go down and take Greek at the language centre. If I could have done Greek History, or Greek Civilisation I would have done that, but failing that I did take History - so long as it was History I was happy.
JC How did you come to take Greek? Because you must have chosen one of the languages which is most difficult to learn from scratch?
KM In first year I just did badly basic Greek, but I can get by…
JC So it was Modern Greek, not Classical Greek you were doing?
KM Oh no, it was Modern Greek…
JC Very handy on holiday - at least you could read the street signs - so after those first two years you were doing History all the time?
KM Yes, I did.
JC Did you say that at one stage you had a gap year in the course?
KM No. This is going to be my gap year now.
JC Ah, I see, after you have graduated, before you start fulltime work?
KM Well, I have been accepted into RGU for a Postgraduate Diploma in Social Work, a year in September.
JC Oh, wonderful, so this year you are going to do things that help you with social work experience?
KM Yes, I work with VSA, Voluntary Services Aberdeen, I work there and I have the grand title of Leisure Activities Organiser, and I go into the different Homes, and I may do crafts with them, or bingo, or I take them for runs, and different things, and then on a Saturday I also work with children who are mentally and physically handicapped or disabled. I do the same sort of things, I take them in the car or I take them out for walks, things like that. So that's what I do.
JC Is this literally voluntary work, or is it paid?
KM The Monday to Friday job I'm paid for, the Saturday one, that's voluntary. At VSA I've got my own office, with my name on the door - I've even taken a picture of it!
JC Well done, I'm delighted to hear that.
Coming back to your undergraduate days, though, were there any particular classes you liked, or found difficult, or particular people who influenced you - either colleagues, or teachers?
KM I must admit I liked every single class I did, though I found it very hard. [Lecturers were very helpful]. Dr Broers [Dr Mike Broers, Reader in History ]was the most wonderful teacher, although I was absolutely terrified of him, when I was going to get any essay back. [He was particularly good on the French Revolution] I always remember he told us how when the French King and Queen were caught by the people who had stormed the Bastille, seemingly they were driving away, and they thought they were lost, so when they stopped the King got down and asked this man 'Could you tell us if we are on the correct road?' and he answered 'Yes'. But when the King turned to tell Marie Antoinette that they were on the right road, this man, who was a postmaster, he recognised the King, because when he saw his face side-on it was the same as the face on the coins - and that's how they were caught. I shall always remember that! But I just thought Dr Broers was the best there was - he was ever so interesting.
JC You said that the work was very hard, was that simply because you were rusty at school-type work?
KM Well I think it was. I have never sat and read any book that wouldn't inform you of something, I've never read a fiction book, I would never read anything like love novels…
JC You would read biographies and history books?
KM That's it, but I had never done it to a timetable, I had never done it to put into an essay, or by a certain time and then had to hand it back. I could read it when I wanted to read it. But all of a sudden we had to read all these books by a certain time for an essay. It was a rude awakening having to do it. At the time I found it very, very hard, and I've cried over essays, and cried over the books I couldn't get, but I wouldn't have missed it for the world.
JC On the subject of essays, presumably you had to present everything computer-written - was that a problem?
KM Well it was to start with, because I had no idea - I was totally computer-illiterate.
JC So how did you pick that up?
KM You got it in your first week, your Freshers' Week, but I think really, you pick it up on your own, throughout the years you've been here. My comment is that you don't go to the Edward Wright Help Desk, because that's a joke, you just go to a fellow student, just even someone who's sitting next to you, and you say 'Excuse me, could you just help me with this?' The students who are sitting there will help you. I've done it for them, and they've done it for me. Everyone knows you don't go to the Help Desk, because you aren't going to get any help at the Help Desk!
JC So when you came up, did you have at the beginning of first year a Help with Studies course? I can't remember its proper name…
KM Oh yes, in the Freshers' Week you get that.
JC Was it useful?
KM Well, not really, no. You got the computers, but as I said you are better off asking someone else, sitting next to you, 'How do you do this?' You were also shown how to find your way round the Library, which was - well sorry for being rude, but I thought that was a bit of a joke, because if you went to the Librarians they would show you more than you actually got taught in this week…
JC Was it not someone from the Library who was doing this course?
KM No, no - I don't know who it was, but it wasn't anybody from the Library. They said 'Go to the Library and use the OPAC and you'll find any book.' And I thought 'Great, but what's an OPAC?' So I just went up to the Library and I said 'Look, I need this, and I don't know what I'm doing' and they were very helpful.
[Next section unintelligible. It seems to relate to giving presentations in class]
JC In the courses you took, were there many other mature students?
KM Yes, there were [next section lost, but the gist was that mature students fitted in easily]
JC Sometimes I have heard mature students say, however, that they tended to be treated as Agony Aunts, with younger students wanting to tell them their problems.
KM Yes, that did happen, especially with the girls [who wanted advice about relationships and suchlike] It was nice actually… [Next section lost]
[JC asks how her family reacted to her being a student]
KM When I started at the College my son would have been 22 [and her daughter was 14, and still at school. Family, including her husband, were supportive] George always says 'If you want to go for it Kathleen, go for it.'
JC What did he do when he came out of the army?
KM He now works at Tescos. He went to McInstosh's also for a while, but then he says 'This isn't for me', but now he is quite happy with Tescos.
JC He isn't interested in studying?
KM Oh no!
JC He probably had to do enough courses when he was a soldier.
What about the money side? You told me that you had to take out a loan, and that you had to pay your fees?
KM No, I'm telling lies, I didn't have to pay my fees. The Scottish Executive had just decided that for a first degree you did not have to pay your fees in advance. [She will have to pay after she graduates]
JC So I suppose it is not a huge difference being a student, especially if you are still working while you are studying?
KM Oh no. What I'm doing is taking the loan money, paying it all into the bank, and then I'll pay off my debts in one lump and keep the interest.
JC Very sensible.
What about the side of University that isn't academic? Did you find time or inclination to go in for any of the social side of University?
KM Yes I did. I didn't go in for a great deal. There was a Mature Students' Club, so I went to that. And I joined the History Society. The thing was that the History Society was not what I expected. It was mostly 'Now let's drink in this place because it's very old, and let's drink in that place because it's very old…' But I did go in for the Torcher, dressed as a carrot, which was something of a throwback since the last fancy dress party I had been to was when I was two!
JC That was street collecting was it?
KM That's right.
JC What sort of thing did you do with the Mature Students' Society?
KM Mostly we just sat there and had a moan with the rest of them, but we did do some different things. We didn't go drinking like the young ones, but we did go for some nights out together and that was nice.
JC And did the Society have a representative function - did it fit into the representative structure of the Students' Association?
KM Yes, kind of, if you turned up. It was different. You didn't just talk about this essay or that book, you would also speak about other things outside the University. It was good fun.
JC Did anything particularly surprise you? [Next bit lost]
KM I was taken aback at the cost of books - I thought 'This is ridiculous' - so I did find my way to the second-hand books [Next section is unintelligible, but she was also surprised at the cost of computers - she wanted to have one at home to work on essays. It was difficult to get onto a University computer unless you were there promptly at 9 a.m. to join the rush for them]
JC How did you structure your day? How did you get to and from University?
KM I used the car, and that meant coming early to get a space. And you always had to park facing out, because if you faced in you would never get out again…
JC That's the car park behind the Library?
KM Yes. So I was usually there at 9 o'clock, and you could find your own little place in the Library. I was always in the basement … It was always so quiet there. You could hear if someone turned over a piece of paper, and if you turned over two there was a general tut, tut, tutting sound.
JC So the Library was your daytime home. What about food? Did you bring your own food in with you?
KM Yes, I always took my own sandwiches. I took one look at the refectory and thought 'I'm not going to pay the prices there', but I think that was because I was a mature student. If I had been a younger student I would probably have paid.
JC Where did you eat your sandwiches?
KM Always in the QML, the foyer of the Library. Or if it was a really nice day I would go down to the Chapel, and sit on one of the seats outside there. You were never on your own. You could be on your own if you wanted, but there was always someone there. It's funny, you met so many different people from different courses.
JC And you made friends?
KM Oh yes - older students, younger students, everyone mixed.
JC What about the foreign students? We have quite a lot of them now - did you make friends with any?
KM Yes, they were Greeks…
JC They must have been thrilled to find somebody who could even say 'Good Morning' in Greek!
KM Yes, that's right. They were all saying to me in English 'What is it you are trying to say, Kathleen, because this is how you pronounce the word.' One year I was asking for a room with a bath, but I was actually asking for a bar with a bath…
JC Well you have been very, very open and helpful in all that you have said. Is there anything that we have not touched on?
[Next section largely unintelligible, but KM re-emphasises how hard she found the work, but how helpful the staff were to her. She spoke also of visiting the University history display which until recently was housed in the King's College Centre]
KM … there was a phone [i.e. a video on a loop] at the end and it told you about the First War, and the students who went to war and never came back, and we have still got some of their old essays, half written. It is so sad. And I thought that on my very last day here I shall go down to the Chapel [to see the Book of Remembrance]. That was so sad. But over all I have thoroughly enjoyed myself.
JC One other question - did you have an Adviser of Studies?
KM Oh yes. I can't remember my very first Adviser, but he was a Politics Lecturer, and I had been here a whole month [when she found her Adviser had not signed her up for one of the classes she was taking. Her later Adviser was very good and very helpful. We went on to speak of how difficult she found doing her Honours dissertation]
JC Did you have occasion to use any of the University support services?
KM No, I was very lucky [except she had a minor eye problem over which Student Health was helpful]
JC So, you seem to have had a very happy time?
KM Yes I did, even for all the tears I wouldn't have missed the experience for anything.
JC Thank you very much indeed.
End of Interview
|