| Description | Interview with Christine Lim recorded on 1 July 2002 by Jennifer Carter.
Transcript of Interview :
JC So Christine what brought you to Medical School in Aberdeen if it was not your native city?
CL Right I come from Malaysia and in our school, it is called the International Medical College, we have a twinning programme with a couple of universities in the UK, and one of them was Aberdeen and it was mainly because of the timing. Because I had finished my 2½ pre-clinical years in January, and Aberdeen was the, as you would call it, the fastest school to begin in April, and also because of economic reasons, Aberdeen offered the clinical course in 2½ years time, as opposed to other universities, which had to be done in 3 or 4 years time. So it was the money as well. Yes, it was mainly time and money that made it Aberdeen.
JC And what was your alternative university choice. Where else was your college twinned with?
CL Well you could complete the course locally in Malaysia, or you could go to many other universities in the UK, like Liverpool, Glasgow, Dundee, Manchester, I think.
JC So you looked at all of those seriously?
CL Oh yes! I looked at them all seriously, and also I felt that besides the timing and the economic reasons being suitable for Aberdeen, it had quite a long- standing reputation. One of the longest. I think it has one of the longest history of being the first medical chair in Europe, I think.
JC Well not in Europe, but in the UK. 14 … I used to know the date! 1497. So that is quite old.
CL It had quite a good reputation. You know the MR machine was invented here. I spoke to other people who did their course here, and they did say good things about it.
JC So you had, as it were, some personal knowledge of the city, before you came.
CL Yes.
JC So you launched yourself to arrive in April of which year?
CL April of 2000, 2 years ago.
JC And you got through the whole of the rest of the course just in that time.
CL Yes.
JC That is quick, isn't it? It must have been very intensive?
CL Yes, it was. It was because we came here not really knowing... Well, okay we knew in a sense what to expect, but not totally. Just because we didn't do our first 2½ years pre-clinical here. We did it in Malaysia. Although we did have external examiners sitting on our college back home, but still it was quite a daunting thought, when you first arrived here. So we just had to… and by the time all the other classmates had their own groups and clichés, and we were just launched into clinical years where we were based on the wards. But it was interesting.
JC Were you the only student from your college who arrived, or were there several of you came together?
CL There were several of us. There were 6 of us who came together, and that helped a lot, and for the first year we all stayed in the Halls, in Rosemount, so we got to compare. Not all 6 of us were together in the same ward group. Different people were distributed differently, but we still got to speak of our experiences and learn from each other. So it was good.
JC So you stayed in touch with that group of home friends?
CL Oh yes.
JC Did that provide a bit of a barrier against meeting other people. I mean was it a kind of a little shell in a way?
CL Yes, and no in a sense. Yes, I think initially, when we first came here of course we were a bit hesitant, you know, of meeting other people. So, yes in that sense, but no, because the other class-mates were quite friendly as well, and they were quite interested to know who this new bunch of people were who came from Malaysia, and all that. So no in a sense that we got to speak to all sorts of other people, because we had new things to tell them about Malaysia, about the food, about the culture.
JC Of course! And did you meet a universally friendly reaction?
CL Universally friendly? Yes. I think it was mainly friendly and neutral. Never non-friendly though.
JC Never non-friendly. That's interesting. Did you have any difficulties in relating beyond the university to local people. Difficulties about the speech patterns, and things?
CL The accent? Yes, some people had .. I suppose it is a two- way thing you see. They had to get used to my accent and I had to get used to their accent, so initially it was a bit difficult.
JC Especially dealing with patients I would imagine. Many of whom would have strong local accents.
CL Yes. But the thing with the patients, was that they were quite kind, because once they knew that you were a foreigner, they would try to speak slower, and also use very simple terms so we could understand each other. It was never a problem in the wards.
JC That's good. Okay so I have got the picture now. You come with a view to working very hard for 2 years to get your degrees and you live partially with friends, as it were, or in an environment where you have got home friends. What happened after that first year? For the second year did you remain where you were or did you move out into lodgings?
CL I did move out. I moved out from the University accommodation and I moved into.. I rented a room outside on my own. Coincidentally there was another medic who was renting a room as well, and we stayed with a landlady. So part of the reasons why I moved out was that the prices in the Halls were very steep, as compared to, if you took the initiative to find your own private accommodation.
JC You could find something much cheaper?
CL Oh yes. It is quite set though, to think of it. Maybe it is because it is Aberdeen, the oil and such, but yeah.
JC So how did prices compare? For example, when you were in the university residence in Rosemount, you were paying how much a week?
CL Oh, at that time, it was about nearly £60 per week.
JC And that was with no food. Heating? Or did you have to pay extra for heating?
CL No. You had to pay. You had to buy tokens from the SPAR shop, and that would be about, let me see.., each of us had to contribute about £1 for about maybe 2 to 3 days I think. So that was exclusive.
JC So on top of the £60 you have your heating and your food and ..
CL And washing tokens, if you wanted
JC So that is running up to £70 a week, something like that.
CL Yes, about that, and prices have gone up since.
JC How would that compare with the private room you hired?
CL Well right now I …
JC You are still in the same place you moved into?
CL Yes. It is about £200 a month. So that would be about £50 a week, and that is inclusive of electricity, and everything, and you know washing.
JC That is a significant difference.
CL Yes. And it is closer to the hospital. It is just opposite the hospital. So.
JC And what is it like living in that way. I mean that was the traditional form of student residence, of course the landlady, but nowadays how did you find it? There were two of you, lodgers, in this house?
CL Two of us, yes.
JC Did you have a room each, or did you share?
CL We had a room each and our landlady stayed downstairs. I thought it was quite a nice, I mean, it was nice at this time for my final year, because I felt I needed more privacy to get ready for the finals, and I got along very well, and still get along very well, with my room mate and my landlady. She has a dog, so it's quite fun.
JC So that's homely.
CL Yes, it's very homely. It is a very homely setting so you felt comfortable. You know you didn't feel like, as compared to the dorms, the Halls, you just had one whole flat with 7 rooms. It just resembled cells, you know!
JC I know, as they are rather small rooms. So what sort of a house is this one you moved into?
CL It is a semi-detached home.
JC A sort of granite semi?
CL Yes, with quite a large garden at the back. So it is very homely, with a nice kitchen, you know, with washing machine provided and everything.
JC And the landlady was what? A widow lady?
CL No. She was just separated.
JC So she was taking lodgers to help pay the bills, but she seems to have been a very reasonable ..
CL She is great. She is ace. She is one of the best looking ladies I have ever met! She is very nice.
JC And what was the arrangement about food? Did you use the kitchen to cook?
CL Yes, we could, but we didn't really cook much, we just , well for me, I just mainly bought bread, or pasta, very simple stuff. No fancy, fancy cooking or whatever.
JC No lovely Malaysian curries or anything!
CL No!
JC Can you cook?
CL Not really!
JC I thought not! Somebody else always did it for you at home. So you got enough to eat, and you eat what you wanted to, and you used the landlady's kitchen. That's interesting. Did you have any space other than your room where you could relax. Could you go and look at the telly, or?
CL There is a telly downstairs, but it was mainly in my room and the kitchen downstairs. We did not have access to the lounge area.
JC That is what I wondered. Whether there was any sort of lounge space.
CL No, but then we stayed upstairs you see, so the upstairs, it is kind of like a lounge by itself, although there is no sofa, but there is a small little area, where she put in a smaller fridge for us, and there is a small microwave, and then we have the room and the bathroom upstairs.
JC Almost like a self-contained flat actually. So that is very good indeed. Well that is extremely interesting. What was the house like from the point of view of bringing friends in? Was that welcome or was that a difficulty? Suppose you had had a friend wanting to come and stay the night?
CL She was okay about us bringing friends in, and to be quite honest, we really didn't have many, many.
JC Because you didn't have a lot of time.
CL But a couple of friends, one or two, we did have friends coming over, and staying over, so it wasn't a problem.
JC That wasn't a problem. You had your own key to come and go?
CL Yes.
JC It sounds ideal!
CL Yes, very lucky indeed.
JC How did you find it as a matter of interest?
CL It was so funny, it was the last day of the contract, and I had not been able to find any room at all, and I was just telling myself if I find it I will go, if not I will continue staying in the Hall. I was just looking through the property pages in a newspaper, so there it was, room for rent, just opposite ARI, so I just called it up and got it.
JC So it was literally just an advert in the paper? No help from the university or anything.
CL No.
JC Okay. Well that's very interesting. Tell me a bit about the course. I understood from what you have told me, that it is very much a kind of high pressured and a very quick way through to a medical degree. So you went straight into ward rounds and teaching on the wards when you arrived did you?
CL Yes. Well we had about a few weeks, maybe a month of, they call it the SSM's, Special Study Module. It was mainly on medical ethics. There was mainly working on projects. You know group work, individual essays, and such. After that module we launched straight into the clinical years, where we had a couple of blocks, 5 blocks, of 4 weeks each, of different specialities, like Obs.& Gynae, Child Health, Infections, so it was mainly seeing patients, following doctors around, attending clinics, doing your own studying at the same time.
JC That special module you spoke of, was that put on especially for people like yourself from overseas? Or was it what everybody did?
CL It was what everybody did. Because when we joined in April, our classmates had just finished their Easter holiday, which was for about 3 or 4 weeks, and then after that everybody had to do the special module. Medical ethics then.
JC And that was covering material which you had not done at all at home?
CL No, no. It was different.
JC The material you did in Malaysia was mainly, I imagine, the sort of scientific side of medicine, and laying the foundations, etc., and then you move into, as it were, the hands on stuff. Had you ever had any patient contact?
CL Oh yes!
JC You did have that back home?
CL Yes. Back home it wasn't the traditional type of medical schools where, we had you know, anatomy ..
JC Just distinction between pre-clinical and clinical.
CL Exactly. I think that it a current trend nowadays in medical schools globally, that they are trying to integrate everything for 1st and 2nd years, so yes we did have patient contact during the first and second years back home in Malaysia.
JC What was the advantage of, if I can ask, of coming to get you qualification overseas, rather than finishing where you were?
CL Well first of all, the degree here is still much recognised in many, many, other countries.
JC Whereas the Malaysian qualification might not be.
CL Might not be, that's right. The British degree, or the GMC General Medical Council recognition, is still held in high regard by many other commonwealth countries. Malaysia's degree used to be recognised, but I think it was because they started to use the Malay language as the main medium of education, and then that slightly compromised the quality of education of such. I think. So they didn't recognise it.
JC So the more ambitious students and the ones who might want to work abroad prefer to get a foreign qualifications, do they?
CL Yes. But a lot had to do with financial reasons as well. Like me, I managed to apply a loan from the government. If I hadn't managed to apply for the loan I might not have been able to afford to come over.
JC Does the loan cover all your expenses?
CL No, it doesn't. It is just tuition fees, but still tuition fees is like a whole load of ..
JC For a medic they are significant.
CL Especially if you are an overseas medic, you know. If you are local, you can still apply for a grants, and such, I understand.
JC Well it is a terrific differential in the fee. I have forgotten the figures, but it is something like the difference between £20,000 and £6,000.
CL Oh. yes, that's right.
JC Something of that order, isn't it? So your Malaysian government paid your fees, you had to find the rest of the money. Was that through your parents, or earnings of your own?
CL Mainly through my parents, and savings.
JC Had you had to work in paid work while you were at home in order to save up some money?
CL Not at home, but here I did part-time work doing my 4th year.
JC Did you! Gosh. What did you find time to do?
CL It was just weekends actually. I worked at the local Chinese take-away. It was enough though, just to supplement the weeks groceries and all that. It was just weekends, and then after that I started giving tuition to a lady from the Chinese take-away. Just basic conversational English.
JC To help her with her English.
CL Yes. Just once a week.
JC Very good. So you were able to do a little bit of paid work, although you were on such a busy schedule. That's grand. Coming back to the academic side, and you have explained about how the thing worked. Were there particular teachers who influenced you, or ..
CL Yes. Loads! I think I have been quite fortunate in meeting many inspirational doctors and surgeons as well. On the wards, you know, you just, when I go in those clinics, I cannot really describe just how, but when you follow a doctor who's kind, and who knows what he or she is doing, you can see it from the patients reaction and such, and most of the doctors I have been with have been good doctors. I have been to Fort William. I have been to placements in Woodend hospital and they were really nice. Really nice, so I have never met a nasty mentor yet!
JC Well that's good and can you think of particular people, you know, name particular people, who were especially strikingly good or helpful to you?
CL Well like my previous placement in Fort William was in Surgery. I can name like Mr. Sedgewick was a very good surgeon, Mr.Lachlan, Mr. Cummings, they were all very nice. Nice people who were surgeons, because normally you would think surgeons would be a bit ..
JC Bit grand!
CL Yes! But they were not that at all. Then in Woodend Hospital, I was in Dr. Alpines ward. He expected a lot. You know, he was a consultant, a no nonsense consultant. He expected everything to be done at once, but it was good because you got used to his expectations and such. I had a very good time at Inverness, doing my General Practice rotation, with Dr. Payne, and the practice nurses there as well. Also I got to meet a lot of people in the hospital itself. From the cafeteria lady to all sorts of nice people. But there are loads.
JC Do you have a particular mentor in Medicine? We used to call them Regents, but that term is probably not used now.
CL I do have a Regent, but to be very honest, we have not been in contact with each other. I think I managed to see him once, when I came over in 4th year, but no since then I have not, I should really drop him a line!
JC Apart from that, you don't have an actually mentor to help you on a day to day basis.
CL No.
JC I wasn't sure quite what the current system in medicine was.
CL But they still have the Regent system.
JC Still creaking along!
CL Creaking along is the word!
JC The University has other networks for helping students, you know, financial advice, particular programmes to help overseas students, Student Health Service, etc., etc. Have you every made any use of any of those?
CL Well I made use of the Student Health Service, but ..
JC Did you find that satisfactory?
CL Well the waiting list was still very long. I remember once I called up for an appointment and I think it was about 'flu or something like that, but the earliest appointment I could get was a week from the day in which I called in! Which wasn't really much help.
JC It means that you were either better or dead!
CL Exactly!
JC Perhaps not dead!
CL So other than that I have not utilised it, maybe because I never thought I would have need to use it, but I cannot really comment on the other services.
JC Just interested, you know. Some students sail through their university days without any help, and some of them need a lot of help along the way. You obviously sailed through. In Rosemount, when you were in University accommodation, was there a warden? Or a sub-warden, or anybody there?
CL Yes, when I was there last year, there was a warden. Jim, he was very helpful, but you know, after the private company took over Rosemount, I think he has left the job. I have certainly not heard from him since. But he was very helpful, very nice guy.
JC Good. Well when you have done your spell in Newcastle, what's your ambition beyond that? Are you going home to work as a doctor, to stay in Britain, or go on somewhere else?
CL Beyond that I would want to get my Post Graduate qualifications first, that would be the MRCP I and II.
JC And that will take you how long?
CL The fastest I could get it I think, would be about three years or four years.
JC That takes us three or four years from now? So you are going to stay in Newcastle to get that, are you?
CL Yes, in Newcastle or somewhere else. I am not sure yet.
JC You might move on after a year?
CL So after that year, I do want to go back, because my family is back home. That's what I plan for now.
JC It is quite a long time. Have you been home at all since you have been here?
CL Yes, I went home last year. Last summer, and that was the first time I had went back after April 2000. So I will be going back this summer, after Graduation. I will be coming back in August.
JC Are your family in medicine at all?
CL Yes.
JC I thought they might be!
CL Yes! My mum and dad, both are doctors! But the funny thing about it was, that they didn't really, you know, encourage me to go like, " Okay you must do medicine". They said that if you want to do it, you must be prepared for the long years, and such.
JC And to work very hard to get good results in school, and so on. Well that is super Christine. Is there anything else that we haven't covered, that you think we should have done? I notice, by the way, you have a very westernised name, Christine.
CL Oh, is that right.
JC Is that significant?
CL It was given to me by my parents, and it is a proper name. It is registered on the birth certificate. I asked them why? They said it was because I was born on Christmas day. I said Okay!
JC So it doesn't have a religious connotation?
CL No, no. I am a Buddhist.
JC You are a Buddhist are you. Can one practice as a Buddhist in Aberdeen? Are there other Buddhists with whom you meet for religious reasons? Or not?
CL Maybe this is one I expect we could have covered. Yes. I was quite active in the Buddhist society back home in Malaysia, and when I came over I was trying to find similar groups as such, you know. I did manage to find a group. It was called the Aberdeen Buddhist Society I think. It was a very friendly group as such, but of course as with many religions, it was not really the exact kind of practice which was followed back home.
JC Of course. Buddhism has many different varieties, doesn't it?
CL Like any religion so I did go for one or two meetings then I just didn't continue on, just because first of all it was far away. I think it was in Buckie or somewhere! I didn't have transport, and no I just felt that I could do it home.
JC Of course Buddhism doesn't actually demand a sort of structure, does it? You don't have to have a church, or a meeting place. You can just be a Buddhist on your own.
CL Exactly.
JC But I suppose it is nice to have other Buddhists to speak with.
CL It is nice, and it is better now, because a couple of my friends have come over, from Malaysia, the same system as well, so we do talk about things. We have books to read and such. You are right in saying that it is more than a structure. It is like a way of life. You know, you do it every day. It is not like, you know, you do it on Wednesdays, Thursdays, and whatever not. So it is helpful to have friends over.
JC A very interesting religion I think.
CL I think so too!
JC You would say that! Not that I am a Buddhist, but you know, I think it is a very interesting one. Right, well we have covered the religion, which we had forgotten. What about politics? Have you had any involvement in politics, either what we call student politics, i.e. agitating for things for students, or have you been interested in British or European politics, or has that all been a closed book?
CL No. Well partially closed!. I was quite active back home in Malaysia. It was in the Student Council, and all that, but when I came over no, I didn't want to get involved with any active societies. I wanted to make sure that I spent most of the time getting through the degree. But we do have a Malaysian society among the Malaysian students, and those are the meetings that I go to. Where politics are concerned, I still keep in touch with politics back home, through the Internet. You get news on there, and also like here I log onto the Guardian website, so I roughly know what is going on. My boyfriend is currently in New York, so I log onto the New York Times as well!
JC Is he also a Medic?
CL He is a Medic as well.
JC Has he gone to practice in America or is he just over for a holiday?
CL No, no. He is studying and staying in New York.
JC Interesting. Was he there on September 11th?
CL Yes, he was.
JC Nowhere near the twin towers I hope?
CL No, he wasn't.
JC Well it has been awfully nice talking to you. If there isn't anything else you think we should cover, shall we sign off?
CL Yes, we should!
JC Thank you very much Christine.
End of Interview
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