| Description | Interview with Helga Sandison, who has just graduated with an Honours degree in Accountancy and French, recorded on 6 July 2001by Jennifer Carter.
Transcript of Interview :
C I didn't ask you, Helga, perhaps I should have done, which class of degree did you get?
S I got a first class
C Oh wonderful! Well done you and congratulations, isn't that good?
S Very pleased, yes.
C Were you expecting that, or was it a surprise?
S It was a surprise.
C It was a surprise.
S I knew I could still get one, but I didn't think the exams went well enough, but I'd actually got enough.
C But in the event all was well?
S Yes.
C Oh well done you, that's super. Why did you choose Accountancy and French, it's a relatively unusual combination, is it?
S Yes, I was the only person in the University to graduate in that this year.
C OK.
S I don't know, they were the two subjects that I really enjoyed at school and when I realised that you could actually do both together…
C You thought you'd do that.
S I though I'd give it a try and I really enjoyed it from the start…
C Oh that's grand and it was a…?
S I'm one of the few people I know who haven't actually changed courses.
C What we boast about, you know: 'you can change a hundred times at Aberdeen' but you didn't. Did you find that the two subjects were kind of equal for you or was there any conflict?
S I think in the first few years you tend to do more Accountancy because…
C It's more novel?
S I think it's more heavily weighted towards it because you've got to do extra subjects as well, you have your Accountancy things and your French things but for the Accountancy half you've also got to do Economics, Statistics, and Law and so it kind of weights everything to that in your first two or three years.
C And I would guess that the accounts that you did at school probably didn't take you very far into university accountancy?
S No, well, first year subjects were what we did at school plus more so it didn't last very long before you were into something completely new.
C Whereas French, if you did sixth-year studies - perhaps you didn't?
S Yes, I did.
C That must have given you a big boost into first year, didn't it? How long was the degree for you?
S Five years.
C It was a five. Does that mean you did a full year abroad?
S Yes, well I had to because the Accountancy degree is accredited for all the Accountancy Institutes. To get exemptions from Institute exams, you've got to do a certain number of courses which means that you can't do a semester abroad and then cram everything else another semester, so I didn't actually have the choice.
C Yes, so you did your full year abroad, not really for French reasons, but because you had to get the credits for Accountancy?
S I think I would have done that anyway because three months is not a long time, you are just starting to get settled in after about three months and actually getting used to the way of life and I think that I was there for about nine months and that was much better.
C Where did you go in fact?
S I went to Lausanne, in Switzerland.
C So you were on a University exchange, not teaching in a school were you?
S No, a University exchange.
C How did it work out?
S It was really good. The Swiss people are really friendly but what I found at the University is, all the Swiss students stay at home so it was quite hard to meet…
C But you managed, you built up a circle gradually did you?
S Yes.
C Mainly based on classes or what?
S Well what happened was I was in a school for non French-speaking students, so you're all mixed in with Spanish people, Americans and that kind of thing and then because I was never in student accommodation as well there was an even bigger mix, although none of them was actually Swiss. And what the University did was run a tandem scheme whereby you meet up with a Swiss person or a foreign person who wants to learn English.
C Oh, I see, so you're given a person to person to link as it were?
S So I met quite a few people through that.
C Interesting. When you say that you were in a school for foreign students, do you mean that your actual lectures and other teaching were in English?
S No.
C They were all in French.
S It was all in French, it was just a mixture of non French-speaking people.
C I see.
S So French was the only common language really.
C How interesting, I wonder, did they suppose that your French wouldn't be good enough to keep up with the French-speaking class or… you know, the native speaking class?
S I think what happened was that there was a lot more emphasis on French language, and things like that than just if you were doing a normal French course, it would be literature-based. A bit like doing English here would be more literature-based than…
C I hadn't realised that that happened in some European universities, that's interesting.
S We did get a chance to do literature as well, but there was a bigger emphasis on language than there would be in a normal course.
C Right, interesting, good. And doing your degree here, any particular parts of it that you especially enjoyed or disliked or…?
S I don't think there was anything that I actually disliked, what I like about the Aberdeen campus is that it's concentrated together you don't have to go half way across the city to get to your next class or anything like that.
C Sure, so the place appealed to you. Any particularly striking teachers on either side of your degree, people whose teaching you particularly appreciated, or indeed, any absolute duffers?
S I don't think there were many people who were really, really bad. I don't know, because I had a mixture people I've not had one person who's taught me all the way through.
C No, one wouldn't expect that no.
S No-one's been…
C Really good?
S You get a mixture of those who are relatively new and experience staff and…
C Old hands, yes. Are the groups of students the same on both sides, I mean I imagine French is a good deal smaller than Accountancy in numbers, does that mean you have smaller tutorial groups or does that not happen?
S Yes, simply because what happens in French is that they tend to do everything in smaller classes anyway, just for ease of teaching and if you're doing like spoken French things, obviously if you're in a big group and you've only got an hour, to give people more opportunity to actually speak, you do things in smaller groups.
C Right. Whereas in Accountancy you presumably had very big lecture classes, do you have tutorials as well?
S Yes, the size of those just varies greatly, it can be anything up to thirty, I suppose, in some of them, it just depends on the course.
C And you are going on to practice as an Accountant now that you've qualified?
S I going to do my ICAS training.
C Which is ICAS?
S Chartered Institute for Scotland.
C Right, is that like being a CA?
S Yes
C Yes, that's the chartered, so you're going out to put up your brass plate somewhere?
S Yes, so that's another three years…
C Do you have to train in somebody's office do you know?
S Yes, I mean it's three, you need three years experience to be fully qualified. I think exams, normally you're finished your exams in about two and a half years but you need your three years experience to go along with it.
C So have you got a place fixed up?
S Yes.
C Well done, is that Aberdeen or somewhere…?
S In Aberdeen, yes.
C In Aberdeen, oh good.
S I think it's quite tough, so I thought I prefer to stay where I am, where I'm settled than to move somewhere completely different and have to start something…
C Quite, I understand, yes. Is it difficult to get places in Accountancy offices, I mean at one time it was very hard for Lawyers to get places, it isn't so bad now, what about Accountancy?
S I didn't have that much difficulty. I think it depends on how you come across as well as how you look down on paper.
C Sure, how many applications did you make for an apprenticeship, I know that's probably not the right word?
S Well I applied to four different firms in Aberdeen. And then you've got to go through your interviews…
C Interviews yes, did they all interview you?
S Yes.
C They all interviewed you, and did you get offers from them all or just one?
S I did, I got all four offers so…
C Well done!
S I was a bit shocked.
C At what stage in the process does that happen, are you doing that during your final year?
S Just at the beginning of your final year, so that was October last year which seemed awfully early to start thinking about…
C Sure, 'where do I want to train?'
S But with hindsight it's much better because when your sitting your final exams and everyone else is stressing about what they're going to be doing afterwards you're totally relaxed and one thing less to worry about. I mean, it took about two weeks out of term time when you've got interviews right left and centre and your coursework tends to slide a bit. But it's two weeks at the beginning of term so it's not two important weeks.
C Who prepares you for those interviews, does the Department of Accountancy or do you go to the Careers Service, or do you get support in making these applications, preparing your CV and so on?
S A bit of both, for things like that they try and send you towards the Careers Service, but they're happy as well to look over your CV as well because they tend to like give you references in the Accountancy Department so they take you and just have a discussion and go over your CV as well and just make sure that you've got…
C The right things. So which firm have you ended up with?
S I'm going to Ernst and Young.
C Oh well, that's one of the top ones, isn't it?
S Yes.
C Well done you. So you're obviously very settled in Aberdeen, Helga, after you've done four of your five years here, and now you're committing to another three, what attracted you to this University in the first place?
S Well, because I'd visited here before, because I had a few friends who were here before me, and I'd seen the campus, I really like the campus, because it's not totally modern it's kind of mixed, you've got your modern bits and you've got your King's College and places like that which is…
C So you came down from Orkney to visit friends in Aberdeen. Did you try other universities, did you look at others as well?
S I did apply to others, and I didn't actually visit any of the others, I don't think. It seems like such a long time ago!
C Yes indeed: before the paper applications, you'd really set your heart on Aberdeen?
S I applied and then I came to visit Aberdeen after I had applied and yes, I really liked it, but what I found as well, because I had decided that I was going to apply to do Accountancy and French, I found a lot of places, well, either they didn't offer it, or they didn't make it clear in the prospectus what was actually on offer, so that put me off quite a lot of places.
C I think Aberdeen's very good about that, makes it very clear, and you're not under the mis-apprehension that you're going to do one degree and end up doing another, and also this business about professional accreditation it's terrible important isn't it?
S Yes, there are so many things you've got to look for and I found that a lot of the prospectuses just…
C Muddy?
S Yes, because I wasn't aware as well, before I came to university, that in lots of places you can chop and change if you don't like something, you can just change to do something different, so I was wary about applying to go somewhere where I wasn't sure they offered what I wanted to do, so I didn't want to apply to do something and find that I couldn't actually do what I wanted to do.
C Very sensible yes. Did many people from your school come to Aberdeen in your year, from your school?
S Yes, quite a few and it was quite strange, we all ended up, me and two other girls ended up in the same corridor in halls, which I thought was a bit strange, because I thought they would have tried to…
C They used to, they always used to!
S So that was quite strange. But I think there were at least five from my year at school came to Aberdeen.
C So which hall were you in?
S I was in Dunbar Hall
C Dunbar. And was it a great success for you?
S I liked it, yes, because it was small.
C In spite of the other Orcadians there?
S Yes. It just made it easier to meet people because you weren't overwhelmed by lots and lots of people.
C Had you, when you were at school, had you lived at home, or were you one of the islanders who had to stay in a hostel?
S No, I lived at home.
C You lived at home. So this was your first serious time living away, really. Yes, so I suppose Dunbar would be a good introduction, yes. Bit noisy?
S Occasionally, but you expect that things like that, but it wasn't too bad.
C And of course, as you said before, very near the University, three minutes walk.
S Yes, so handy.
C That's good. And how long did you stay in hall, for just the first year?
S Just the first year, yes.
C And what did you move on to?
S I moved into Spring Gardens, the University-owned flats, which is kind of a step between halls and something else. There were seven of us in a flat and you've all got your own rooms and your own wash hand basins but a shared kitchen and shared bathrooms.
C Did you move in with people that you'd met in Dunbar?
S Yes, I moved in with two friends that I'd met in Dunbar, plus… well we all applied together, there was another group of four who'd all applied together and we all got put into the same flat.
C I see, yes. And it worked out well, worked out fine?
S Well, some of us still share a flat together.
C Oh right. So one year in Spring Gardens and then you moved into private accommodation?
S After that I went to Switzerland.
C I see, yes, of course, that broke the pattern. And then private when you came back?
S Yes.
C With friends who you'd carried forward from before?
S From the same flat from Spring Gardens, there were seven of us there and five of us still share.
C So that was nice, so they kept the flat warm for you as it were. And what was private accommodation like, was it in your day? Was it easy to find, or difficult?
S Well, I was quite lucky, because as I was in Switzerland, my friends did everything for me.
C They did all the hassle, you just floated back with your suitcase?
S Because I was in Switzerland and one of my other friends was in Germany, so all we had to do was sign a lease which was quite nice. I think they found it quite difficult because there was five of us, so it was quite hard to find a big enough flat.
C And where did you end up, whereabouts in town?
S We were on George Street.
C That would be fairly old-fashioned accommodation, would It?
S Yes, it is.
C Grotty or quite tolerable?
S Quite tolerable. I mean when we moved in it obviously hadn't been cleaned since the last people had moved out so that was a bit annoying when you first move in and you expect everything to be clean.
C Instead of which you have to set to with the scrubbing brush and get it decent. Yes, it sounds a bit of a burden. Otherwise, were the landlords ok to deal with?
S Yes, very reasonable. I think our landlady's a bit scatty, like, and tends to forget things sometimes, but we've had no problems really.
C And are you staying on there while you start work?
S We're still there at the moment, until the end of the month, and then I'm looking to buy a flat with my boyfriend at the moment. But it does look increasingly likely that I'm going to be homeless at the end of the month.
C What does your boyfriend do, is he also an accountant?
S Yes, he's two years into his training.
C OK, well, that's all very interesting, and talking about things like accommodation, what about money? You would have been a student who did not get a grant, did you?
S No, I got one.
C You got one, yes. So you got a grant and did you have to take out loans as well?
S Yes, I've taken out three over the five years, so I didn't have for the first two years but after that…
C So you managed on your grant for the first two years, when you were in University accommodation?
S Well, managed on a grant and the money I'd saved…
C Ah, you'd saved from work.
S No, a grant, even in first year when you're in halls, I got a full grant and it didn't cover accommodation, no.
C So how did you make up the short-fall in those two years, did you work during term-time or was it money you'd saved from school?
S In first year, money I'd saved from school and working over the summer holidays. In second year I worked during term time for most of the year.
C What sort of hours?
S I think I was working sixteen hours a week.
C That's quite a lot isn't it?
S So I worked a Tuesday evening, all day Saturday and Sunday from about twelve till five.
C Pretty gruelling isn't it, what sort of work were you doing?
S I was working in a shop.
C What serving in a shop?
S Well, not really, it was more a case of filling shelves and lifting heavy boxes which I didn't like very much!
C Packing and so on, yes. And how well was that paid, or was it absolutely rotten pay, I don't know?
S It was ok, it was about £4.50 an hour.
C Yes, so about the sort of…
S Quite reasonable for the sort of work you were doing.
C And you stuck with that type of work, did you, afterwards, or…?
S No, that was the last time I did that.
C So what happened afterwards?
S After that summer I went home, which was the summer before I went to Switzerland, I went home and I did supply work in a bank.
C Oh right.
S Which was quite good.
C Quite useful training?
S Yes, it was quite good, but because it was supply work, they just phoned you up when they were short staffed…
C Or when somebody was ill?
S Yes, it was a bit unreliable, but I think it was quite reasonably paid, I think I was getting about £5 per hour for that.
C Switzerland is very expensive of course, was that a problem?
S No, I was lucky I got a scholarship to go, because the University here offers two exchange scholarships to go there, or the University there gives you money. There's an exchange scholarship anyway and two students come from Lausanne and two go from Aberdeen, so I got, I think it was about £3000 in total for the nine months, that made a big difference. And because it is so expensive there, the grant from the SAS is more, they give you a bigger grant, because it's so expensive there.
C Oh, that's something yes.
S Yes, so that made a big difference and I had more money…
C Than you usually do?
S Yes, it was really good, just meant that you could do so many more things.
C Travel about a bit and so on. And then when you came back, did you have to also work in term time during your last two years?
S I did yes, I was doing the job I'm doing at the moment, doing research in the Accountancy Department, just for a few hours per week. I think I was doing about seven or eight.
C So that was more reasonable in terms of the time it took and the sort of work. That's good, thank you for telling me that, that's interesting. Did you find, you know, thinking of your friends and the people you shared flats with, and people you met in classes and so on, did you find that a lot of them were worried about money and having to take term time jobs or was that not so?
S Yes, I think there are a lot of people who were working.
C Quite pushed for…?
S A lot of people quite pushed and living up to the edges of their overdraft and all these kinds of things. But there are students as well who are completely furnished by their parents and who don't worry at all about money, so there's quite a big range I think.
C But could you sort of quantify at all as to whether it was kind of, among your circle at least, you know was it a very significant factor in life, or were the majority of people you mixed with ok for money?
S I think most of us, you were ok, but you watched what you spent.
C You were careful.
S Yes, I think most of us had to. I mean even people who are getting money regularly from their parents, I think a lot of people feel guilty that their parents are still giving this…
C Having to support them when they're really grown up?
S Because you've got all your independence, you're living away from home and you're still having, still tied to, dependence on your parents.
C How did you manage within the flats, did you all shop and cook for yourselves or did you eat communally?
S We did because we were all doing different things, and we were eating at different times and nobody likes the same things, so at times it was difficult because there are five of us in the flat at the moment, if you do want to cook at the same time, you can't basically. But it's been ok, because two of my flatmates are doing medicine they tend to be doing things at different times and their exams aren't at the same times…
C Sure, so the pressure points come at different times of year. What do you reckon were your main sort of networks for forming friendships? Dunbar was obviously very important to you at the beginning, what other networks do you think you mostly used to get to know people?
S Well, obviously in your courses, you meet people through that.
C You mentioned big classes like in Accountancy?
S Less, so I would say. When you start to go into tutorials, that's when you start to meet more people I think.
C Clubs and societies or not?
S I didn't really do much of that kind of thing, really, what I found as well, because we got moved into a flat in second year with people we didn't know, that was another opportunity to meet lots of people because obviously four new flat mates plus all their friends as well and because two of them were doing medicine, that was another big group of people.
C Suddenly get to know all the medics, yes. If you didn't join clubs and societies at all, was this difficult from the point of view of your CV? Because some people tell me they join just for the sake for something to put on their CV.
S I think I maybe did that in the second last year, I'm sure I maybe joined something but I didn't go to anything!
C So it was very nominal!
S Yes, I mean I prefer to do things with my friends and things like that.
C What sort of interests did you follow outside of the University?
S Just basic things really, like marginal sports, like swimming and so on. If you join a club to do swimming you…
C Not on at the time you want to go and so on, and swimming certainly, if you take it seriously can be terribly time-consuming.
S Yes, well I'm not that good a swimmer and I don't like the stressful competing atmosphere that I think… a lot of the University sports clubs are quite competitive and that doesn't appeal to me at all.
C So sports and theatre?
S Cinema.
C Cinema, which of course, is easier than theatre in Aberdeen.
S Yes.
C So you viewed films quite a lot?
S Yes, I think when I was in Switzerland it really opened my eyes there were just loads and loads of cinemas, there were at least a dozen cinemas and it's about the same size as Aberdeen.
C Yes, until recently we had only about two.
S And it was just the variety, so many more foreign films and just a bigger variety of films so when I came back I was looking for other things, not all the big budget American things that were here previously.
C Did you do any of the cinema courses within French?
S No, I didn't.
C No, I wondered if that lapped over.
S No, some of the courses I did, did have film in them, some of them were a mixture of literature and film. I find it quite hard to write about films as opposed to literature I don't know why.
C As opposed to just sitting back and enjoying them, yes.
S I think I prefer that than watching things and analysing every detail.
C Yes, I've often though, I'm interested to hear you saying that, I've often though that, to take cinema that seriously, academic subject, must be quite difficult. What about the sort of student support services, did you have occasion to use any of them and if so, what did you think about them, for example we have advising, counselling, student health, chaplaincy and no doubt many others that I can't think of?
S I haven't really needed to use them, obviously I go to student health.
C And is that helpful?
S Yes, they are usually quite good in there.
C Better than going to an outside GP, or not as good?
S Yes, pretty much the same I think, around exam time and things like that you find it really hard to get appointments.
C Everybody's rushing?
S Everybody's stressed. I think they're quite helpful there.
C And you didn't have to use any of the financial counsellors or anybody at all.
S No I've been ok, because I was working tided me through… thankfully.
C Have you kept up with friends from outside this University, perhaps people you're at school with or people from home who've been to other universities, any points of comparison as it were?
S Probably not so much on the universities, more on the towns and places like that, people tend to notice more differences, I think Aberdeen's just that little bit - I don't know how to say this - still further back than a lot of the, like Edinburgh and Glasgow.
C Provincial might be the word.
S Yes, than say Glasgow or Edinburgh.
C How, incidentally, did you travel between home and Aberdeen, did you take the boat or…?
S Yes, just depends on what's easiest or what you can afford, because it's quite expensive to fly, but that's the easiest way to go, and quickest. So just a mixture really, you can get a boat from Aberdeen, or you get a bus all the way to Scrabster and get a boat from there.
C That's a hard way of going I would think, that must be what an eight hour bus ride?
S Yes, pretty much.
C Gosh, and what does it cost, the boat fare, I don't know?
S From Aberdeen I think it is about £40 return.
C So I suppose that's not too terrible.
S It's ok.
C Plane would probably be about £150 or something?
S Yes, about £125 is probably about the cheapest.
C So did you tend to go home each vacation, or did you sometimes stay in Aberdeen?
S Most of the time I went home, the last two summers I've stayed in Aberdeen to work.
C But having taken a holiday at home?
S Oh yes I always go home for a few weeks just to relax.
C Yes, because that's an extra expense you know if you live somewhere like Shetland, it's not like getting the £12 bus to somewhere nearby.
S No, you can't go home for the weekend unless you've got lots of money.
C Good, well that's been very interesting Helga, is there anything you'd like to say that I haven't asked about, anything that has struck you, any changes in the five years you've been here, or anything particular that you've thought of that would be interesting to record which I haven't happened to ask you?
S I don't know, that's really hard. It just seems really strange that it's all over, it's all gone really quickly, five years seems a really long when you first come here, and it's just gone.
C And it always accelerates towards the end, and your last summer term always goes by so quickly doesn't it. Have you actually graduated, have you gone through the ceremony yet?
S Yes, that was on Monday.
C On Monday. And have you been to any of the parties, going to any of the balls or anything?
S Yes, I was at the ball on Wednesday night.
C Was it good?
S It was really nice, it was funny because you realise that you recognise so many people, people that you don't know but you recognise their faces because you've been seeing them every day for the last four years.
C And it's good value was it, value for money as it were?
S It's ok, it's quite expensive just to graduate in general, I think.
C Yes, what does it tot up to, I mean, you have to pay a fee, don't you, to graduate?
S There's a £40 fee for graduation, you've got to hire your gown which is another £20, I'm trying to think what else you spend on the day.
C Graduation ball would be?
S £20 a ticket.
C We're getting up to near £100.
S And then if you want your photos taken…
C That's another £20.
S Well mine were about £40, but that's because I had, well there were various packs and things on offer.
C And you were thinking of all your aunties and things. Did your family come down from Shetland for the day?
S Yes.
C And that's another expense of course, they have to stay somewhere. Yes, it isn't cheap is it?
S No, it's quite expensive after the end of a five year course.
C No I was thinking, if you added your family's expenses as well you're probably looking at at least £300.
S Expensive business, but you're only doing once in your life.
C And not everybody gets a first class degree, so, well done you.
END OF INTERVIEW
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