| Description | Interview with Roy Carter recorded on the 3 July 2001 by Jennifer Carter.
Transcript of Interview :
C We are recording on the afternoon of 3rd of July, 2001 and the subject of this interview is Roy Carter who is a student of…
RC Economic Science and Entrepreneurship.
C Graduated 2001?
RC Yes.
C And the interviewer is Jennifer Carter, who is no relation to Roy, it's a coincidence…
Break in recording
C Ok Roy well assuming we are in business now, and that the machine will be working correctly this time. Tell me what brought you to Aberdeen in the first place?
RC To be honest I am not entirely sure. I was doing the usual, looking through the UCAS "Big Book" on universities, without any clear picture of even what I wanted to study. A vague leaning towards Economics, and I looked through and I saw this course, Economics and Entrepreneurship, and the Entrepreneurship I guess kind of leapt off the page at me, and I came up to visit Aberdeen and loved it. So here I am.
C You say the Entrepreneurship part leapt off the page, were we literally, at that time, the only university offering that degree?
RC I think Stirling might have been doing it, but I am not sure. They definitely started soon after, if they didn't at the time.
C And Entrepreneurship appealed, why? Because it sounded novel, different from school, or because of a family background, or what?
RC Yes. Possibly all of the above. It sounded interesting anyway. A change from what are often dry subjects. Both my mum and dad are self employed, or were at that time. So I guess I had the background for it as well.*
C Has the course lived up to those expectations?
RC Yes and no. It was different. Not quite what I had expected, I don't think. I couldn't say why, but it was enjoyable anyway.
C Not what you expected in what sort of regard? Because it was more academic, less academic?
RC I think it was more Management rather than Entrepreneurship. There wasn't such a large Entrepreneurship side. So I guess that was where it differed.
C And the Management is, is that pretty theoretical or is it fairly practical?
RC It's both. It depends on the actual module you are studying. The first two courses, I think, I did in first year Management were highly theoretical. They became more practical as the years went by!
C The Economic Science part of the degree, i.e. the pure Economics, that presumably remains pretty theoretical as well I suppose?
RC Yes. Again it does depend on the course. The first two years was all theory, and in third and fourth year there were some different modules that I did, like Economics of the Welfare State, which is, I suppose, it is all theoretical, but it's hands-on theoretical, if you like, so you can, it's one of the more clear courses where you can apply it to everyday life, and see where it fits in. Which is something harder, probably, than Economics.
C So taking all of this together, I mean, has the course, as it were, worked for you? Would you choose it again?
RC I think so, on the whole, I mean obviously there are a couple of modules I didn't enjoy. I didn't enjoy doing Accounting, for one, but it was a pre-requisite.
C Probably termed a necessary skill.
RC Yes, yes. And there were a couple of others that I didn't enjoy too much, but were necessary. But on the whole, I enjoyed it.
C Any particular teachers stand out in your experience? Who will you remember? Somebody who was terribly good, or crashingly awful?
RC There will be a few actually. Mostly of them from the Economics side of it, actually. There was Bob McMaster, who is a very good lecturer. I always remember, I think his lectures in first and second year were scripted, but his jokes were scripted in as well. Because I had friends in years below who came and told me the same jokes that he had told at the same time.
C You didn't borrow notes from the students ahead of you to prevent you going to lectures?
RC No - I wasn't quite that sly! David Newlands, as well, in Economics, had a similar style to Bob's. They complement each other very well. There's a couple of courses that they are co-lecturers on. No one from the Management department, seems to stand out.
C Did you have any really bad teachers? Because one of the things I've always thought about university is that you do need to be taught by one or two really poor lecturers to appreciate the others.
RC There were a couple in both departments, in the Economics department there weren't poor lecturers, but we had difficulty understanding them. One was Greek and one was Swedish. Once you got the hang of the accents, the way they went about it was fine. The Management side, a couple, I think it might have been the courses they were teaching, rather than them, that made me not pay attention!
C What about IT skills? I think this is so important for students nowadays. Did you come up fairly well equipped or did you have learn on the job?
RC Yes, no I mean I did computing Standard Grade and Higher at School.
C So you were of the generation to whom this came naturally?
RC Yes. But again, we had to do the academic skills "Getting Started" course, which personally I found a waste of time, because it covered things I knew. There were a couple of bits that were worth while, like how to use the Library, and I actually did an Introductory Computing Skills course, because I needed a couple of extra credits. I only needed two credits, it was, two credits. So that was fine. It was a multiple choice exam and again it was all the stuff I knew, but the course was there.
C That sounds tolerably satisfactory. You mentioned, by the way, that you had done IT, for example, at school. Could I ask which school you were at?
RC I was at Boroughmuir High School in Edinburgh.
C Does that send many students to us? A fair number, I think.
RC I think there is a fair few, not a particularly high percentage, but there are a few people around that went to Boroughmuir.
C So Aberdeen was not, in that sense ,a wildly odd choice for you once you had seen the course? Lots of Edinburgh people come here?
RC No, no. I think it is ideally situated. Because, it is far enough away to be far enough away, but also close enough to be handy for going back for weekends or visiting parents.
C Once you got to Aberdeen, how easy was it to settle in? Did you, for example, meet a lot of people you already knew? Or did you start more or less from base one?
RC No. I started completely from base one. When I came up, as far as I knew, there was no one I knew here. It turned out there were a few people I knew, but I didn't know they were coming up, but no, I started totally from the beginning.
C So what sort of networks did you build and how, was it based on classes, based on places you knew…?
RC No, in first year most of my friendships were almost entirely based at Dunbar Hall, which I loved. Very sad that it seems to be closing.
C Yes, well we might come back to that, that's an interesting problem
RC Yes, yes. But I made a lot of good friends there. One of whom, well she didn't actually live, she was the girlfriend of the guy on my corridor, who has been my flatmate for the last 3 years, and ..
C So you moved on from Dunbar Hall a little nexus that you'd made there and set up in a flat from second year onwards?
RC Well we moved into Spring Garden, where we were in second and third year, and we went private in fourth year. Wish we had done it sooner really.
C Why? Because the accommodation was better, or the rents were cheaper?
RC No, I loved Spring Garden in second year, but I think going back in third year was a mistake. It is ideally situated, it is right in the centre of town, but close enough to the University, that you don't need to get up too early to get to make your lectures! But I think having the breeze block walls, and the very regimented way of living, you had to go and buy washing tokens, it was fine for a year.
C You moved out afterwards?
RC Yes, and I think we were just too lazy to go flat hunting at the time, and the application form comes in quite early for university accommodation.
C How difficult was it to find a flat eventually. Was it a great struggle, or did it fall into your lap?
RC It fell into our lap, we were quite lucky. Victoria, who has been my flatmate for the last three years, had a friend from home whose big sister had been at Aberdeen, and had bought a flat when she was here, and she heard through the grapevine that it was up for rent…
C A grapevine deal!
RC So it was a grapevine deal. So we did go round to look at it, and moved in.
C Did the original owner hold on to it and rent to you or did she sell?
RC No - she rented to us. It is actually up for sale at the moment.
C So she hopes now to realise her investment.
RC Yes, yes. Well they seem to be having a bit of difficulty.
C Among the students generally of your generation, is that sort of pattern you have described fairly typical do you know?
RC Probably not. I think most people do go into Halls in first year, which I think is great. It is a great way of meeting people. And also of getting to know the city as well. But then a fair number do go into places like Spring Garden in second year, and then private in third and fourth year, but I would say more and more people are beginning to go straight into private accommodation.
C What, really from day one?
RC Well in second year…
C Certainly from second year. And what's the attraction of that, is it the, what you have described as the sort of slightly more agreeable lifestyle, less regimented, or is it money, or what is it?
RC I think partly there is more and more people are buying places…
C OK
RC Because then you don't have to pay rent, and so then you know you can...
C A group of you ..
RC Hopefully sell it on, or carry on living there. I think also it is the excitement of having your own home…
C Your own bricks and mortar?
RC Sad as it seems looking back.
C Not at all, not at all. Does that presuppose parents put in something for the mortgages as it were, or do students now get 100% mortgages?
RC Yes, you can get, I think you can get a student mortgage, which the mortgage is in your name, but it's secured on your parents' house. So obviously your parents have to be agreeable, but it means that they don't actually have to come up with any capital. Aside from that I presume that you still need a deposit.
C Given the upward turn of Aberdeen prices, most of time - but they do fluctuate a bit - but if you sell at the right time you should be able to do quite well I would have thought?
RC Yes, assuming you keep your house in a good state of repair. I think that is part of the problem that our landlady is having!
C Students tend to be hard as tenants.
RC It's been neglected a bit, our flat, fine for a year, but if I was buying it, it would need a lot of work done
C Talking of these money matters to do with living and again if I could ask you a general question, how seriously should we take the student financial problem which we hear a lot about?
RC I think it's one that has been let slip by the Government recently. I mean not since the Scottish Parliament, obviously it's come to the forefront, but it's, I mean obviously there is not the money to give students the grants that they used to get, although I personally think it is necessary. I think it's an unfair system expecting parents to contribute, I am very fortunate in that my parents were able to afford to put me through university…
C What - they gave you a straight allowance, did they?
RC Yes, I mean I just crept in where I got my fees paid still under the old system, and .. but I think people from poorer backgrounds wouldn't be able to afford to come to university. It is being looked at now, but I think they need to bring back grants as much as they can.
C Do you know, that would have been my view too, except that experience seems to suggest that year on year university numbers have kept on going up except for a blip in the first year when fees were introduced but thereafter numbers seemed to have picked up again, certainly for the older universities but that's not if not for all
RC I think that's part of the Government's very good initiative to widen access, so they are encouraging more and more people to come and get a degree, and I think, it's not totally necessary still to have a degree, but certainly if you don't have a degree you are singled out more. Having a degree is not quite as special as it once was, but you really need to get one to fit in with the crowd, if you see what I mean. You certainly get better pay if you are a graduate, there's pay discrepancies. But I have friends who went straight from school into work and have done very well for themselves.
C But of course they may be among those who come back later?
RC That's true.
C If they can earn enough and save enough!
RC They may be put through training courses or degrees by their employers.
C You were speaking in very general terms, could I ask you for, exactly, as it were, for your own experience, how much did you need on average, per year to get by as a student without either starving or doing too much paid work?
RC That's a tricky one to answer because my parents were very generous, and gave me more than I needed. I think it partly boils down to what you think you need to do at university. I personally think that the actual degree's only about 25% of what you learn at university.
C Right, so you wanted to have leisure?
RC I think the important thing about university is making friends and...
C Doing things…
RC Moving away from home. It is very important to go to university in a different town or city from where your parents are and learning how to network, and getting involved in the social side of things. I think it sets you up very well for later life, and... so I think that all students should be able to afford to do that. It doesn't necessarily involve going out and getting drunk every night, you know! But you have got to have some finances I would say.
C So about how much would you need to be reasonably comfortable without going over the top, and not have to take paid work…
RC Again, it is hard to say...
C You've just completed four years, haven't you?
RC My parents paid my rent directly, so the only money I saw was my cash in hand if you like.
C So leaving rent out, how much would you need?
RC Probably between, anything between, £40 and £80 pounds a week, it does depend very much on bills and things and of course it's different in first year if you are in Halls and you have got food and electricity...
C And you have got to pay for that whether you take the food or not.
RC And again it does depend on what you eat, and how healthily you eat!
C Were a lot of your friends in dire poverty? I mean did you have people in your circle who were really were scraping?
RC No I don't think anyone was scraping, as such. I know some friends who were very tight on their budget, and who budgeted very carefully, which I only wish I had!
C Are you going to tell me for the record what your student debt is?
RC I've got two student loans out, which again I didn't need, but I went very heavily for the socialising side of things, and I've got an overdraft of about £1000.
C Well that's very modest by the average standards of today.
RC Yes, again my parents were very generous. It was just the last two years, and I got very heavily into the socialising side.
C So the socialising side was obviously, and one can perfectly well understand why, very important to you, did you incidentally have to do paid work in the vacations?
RC No, well I did over the summer holidays I did work.
C What sort of jobs did you do?
RC Last summer I worked in a sandwich shop in Edinburgh, making fillings in behind the counter. The second summer I worked for my stepfather in the Scottish Parliament. Which was excellent.
C And what does he do in the Scottish Parliament?
RC He is the Green MSP, Robin Harper...
C Oh, I sort of vaguely knew him as a student!
RC Oh. Alright.
C Oh that is nice, he was in Crombie Hall, only just before I arrived.
RC He was there the first year it was built, I think.
C Yes, so that was a wee bit before my time, but his reputation was still going…
RC Yes, well he was in Aberdeen for about eight years I think. Kept failing exams and passing exams, in the days when you could afford to do that, because of course you got a full grant.
C He was alleged to have lived on porridge oats or baked beans or something.
RC The last reported, recorded person in Britain to get scurvy!
C With scurvy yes! Well, I think it's his reputation…
RC Yes, could well be..
C It was still very strong when I first came to the university.
RC He'll be glad to hear that.
C Yes, well do take that back...
RC And then last summer I worked for my Mum's company Carter Rae Communications, where I'm now working full time
C Ok, sorry we got a little bit lost from your social life, so it really began with Dunbar you told me, and kind of rippled out from there?
RC First year I didn't spread my roots that much. I didn't really join any societies. I did a show with Treading the Boards. We did Kiss me Kate because I had been involved with theatre in Edinburgh. But I generally just socialised with friends from Dunbar. Then second year, half way through second year, a friend of mine from home that I discovered was up here, had been involved with Gaudie, the student newspaper, and they had opening for an Arts Editor, she took me out and got me drunk and I somehow discovered myself, I was Arts Editor the next day! I thought 'Oh! Dear'!. But I think it was the best thing that happened to me at university. I joined as Arts Editor half way through second year and did that up until the summer when I moved on to be News Editor, which I was much more interested in, and I did news for six months, well the first semester, and then Rob Littlejohn who was Editor at the time stepped down to do his dissertation, and there was an election for Editor, which I did stand in, but I was beaten by my friend Lesley [Millar] who had introduced me to the paper, but she asked me to be her Assistant Editor. So I was very surprised and pleased and grateful and that was excellent, and then I stood as Editor, when she stepped down in the summer, and I was elected, no one else stood, and I have done that for the last year.
C That must be a fairly big commitment of time isn't it?
RC Yes, well I think it should be a sabbatical post, being Gaudie Editor. I think it needs to be, but it is excellent, and of course through, since I have been, well News Editor really, I started getting involved in behind the scene politics and things, and from the time I was Assistant Editor and Editor, I started socialising with all the Presidents and things, and of course now there are Vice Presidents and the President…
C What is the position of Gaudie? I mean is it presumably an independent newspaper where the Editor can say what he likes or is it seen as a mouthpiece of the Student Association?
RC It's a bit complicated. It is an independent newspaper, but there is a story behind that which I should tell you actually, it would be quite interesting, but it is an independent newspaper although it is funded by, or it was funded by the SRC, but it is moving over to be funded the Students Association, but it wasn't funded in the form of a grant, because there was no sabbatical person to look after the money. So bills were just paid on a kind of ad hoc basis. If we wanted anything extra, we had to apply…
C Had to make a case for it too.
RC And in the past, relations had been very bad and the SRC had, I think, almost tried to take over and make it a mouthpiece of them, which would be very bad, but since I joined relations were getting better between Gaudie and, well, mainly the SRC, because the others weren't so much involved, the other student bodies, to the extent that this year, as I say, I have been very friendly with the sabbatical officers, we have had a good relationship. On the whole - except, it is quite ironic, we have just been down to, four of us, had just gone down to London for NUS Student Journalism Conference, we came back all enthused with ideas, then the following, I think it was two weeks later, there was the referendum on whether to remain affiliated to the NUS and, of course, Gaudie covered this, and we have a responsibility to be impartial, in the editorial line I can say what I like, but news coverage has to be impartial.
C Who lays that down as a matter of interest?
RC It is largely self imposed, but the SRC had stipulated that. All good journalists, I think, should be unbiased.
C Try telling that to Rupert Murdoch…!
RC Yes, exactly, but we have actually signed up to the Press Code of Good Conduct, and we have since written up a Code of Conduct with the Students Association. So it is written down, it's not law, as it were, but you know. But we had put in a front page story on the referendum, and I had been particularly concerned that the referendum was biased, because there was a huge campaign by the NUS for us to remain affiliated. We are the only ancient in Scotland who was affiliated, so it was very important to them that we remained affiliated. And they'd come in and done a huge campaign; glossy posters, leaflets, people on campus, free T-shirts, that sort of thing, but there had been no one campaigning for the no campaign, and I was concerned that students weren't aware of the reasons why we should not be affiliated. Personally, I wanted to remain affiliated, but I was still concerned that the...
C That the other side got its fair share of the voice?
RC And the Students Association had decided to take a neutral stance, which I think was right, but in so doing they did not promote both sides of the story. They allowed the NUS to come onto campus and blanket it with publicity, but they didn't, they said they would have funded a no campaign but no one stepped forward to run it, so I personally think they should have run one themselves, and so we highlighted this on the front page of the paper. No one had any quibbles with the story, the story itself was fine, but I wanted to be very controversial and grab people's attention and also try and get people to vote, as there was a huge thing of apathy - not just students these days - and so we put on a front page headline which said "Just say NO to a biased campaign". I personally didn't think it was implying vote no, I thought it was saying - say no to the campaign. But members of the SRC and the Students Association of the executive got wind of this before it went to print, which they shouldn't, the only person who should see it is, was the SA President who was Editor in Chief just for legal grounds, and he had seen it, Simon Varwell, he had asked me to change it, and myself and the News Editor, who had written the piece, felt very strongly against changing it.
C So you told him you were not going to?
RC So we told them that we weren't going to and he had agreed - eventually. He wasn't happy, but agreed but he couldn't change it on legal grounds, so he couldn't just actually change it himself. But as I say, somehow members of the Association got wind of it, and they, I say illegally, of course it's not illegal, but, illegally…
C Improperly?
RC Yes, improperly, thank you, stopped the paper going to print in an attempt to force us to change the headline, and eventually they did force us to change the headline. Although in the end we made such a strong stand just a question of changing sizes and printing a question mark at the end, which we still weren't happy with…
C Didn't have impact of what you were trying to create ... yes.
RC And so we were going to go on strike and not do a paper the following week, but I thought that we wouldn't be able to get our point of view across, so in the end we printed up censorship flyers and handed them out and the following week's Gaudie was actually the most read of the entire year, and people were very supportive of us and in the end the main member of the SRC who was involved resigned as a result which...
C Who was that ?
RC It was Rami Okasha, who is actually NUS North of Scotland convenor, and I thought as well, he was actually campaigning for the yes votes, and he was meant to be on the Association which was a neutral body, and he had got wind of it, and he admitted to me later he had abused his position. So he resigned, he was actually Clerk of the Student Association. He didn't resign from the SRC, just stood down from his position which was good enough, so I wrote a strongly worded letter to the Students Association saying it had better not happen again or the entire staff would resign. Which was very good, as they were all behind me. The upshot of that is that we have signed this Code of Conduct. Gaudie's reiterated its independence.
C Well that sounds admirable and something that you've come out of very well. You mention though, in the course of that you said that a particular issue of Gaudie was quote: 'the most read of the year'. How does one judge that? It must be very difficult with a free giveaway newspaper to know what your readership is?
RC It is quite tricky. The print run is 4,000.
C The student population is about 11,500, yes?
RC Something like that. The actual readership is hard to tell, because you might take one for your flat, and four people in the flat.
C I was wondering how you judged it?
RC But we can tell "pick-up", from the various locations where the Gaudie is dropped off…
C Do you go back at the end of the week do you, or what happens?
RC Well we go back round distributing the following weeks edition, and pick up what's left and most of it gets recycled.
C So that's the main way you judge it, by how many actual copies have disappeared?
RC Well and we are actually in the process, or we have just completed a look at where the Gaudies are distributed, and we are reviewing it, so they will be spread over more places, with fewer big dumps, because again, it's quite good, we can tell how many were left so there was no point, if there were that many left every week, there's no point in having them all there.
C Have you ever, just as a matter of interest, discussed this with the University's own Public Relations Office, who face extremely similar problems distributing the University's Newsletter.
RC We haven't …
C It has always been said, for example, that very few get up to Foresterhill.
RC Yes, Foresterhill is a problem that we have. We are actually increasing the distribution there.
C We were talking about the distribution of Gaudie?
RC Yes Foresterhill. That is of course a hospital, so we can only put it in the one teaching block, but we are increasing the number of copies that go in. I say are, I still talk as if I am involved…
C You are still doing it ! .Yes..
RC Graduation Gaudie is coming out tomorrow.
C And that's your last one is it?
RC Yes, that's the last one.
C You spoke also a little bit earlier about apathy amongst students and you said, you know "and more widely", by which I assume mean things like the unwillingness of people to vote in elections. Right? How apathetic are students in fact?
RC Very, sad to say.
C Why is that? Because they are too busy or for other reasons?
RC Well, I think there are a variety of reasons. Part of it is laziness, as some of them can't be bothered. Part of it is lack of interest, depending on the election, if it's for an election for, say, the SRC..
C They normally get a very small turn-out don't they ..
RC It's five or six percent for those ones, normally. People say 'why should I bother, what will they do for me?' They could take the trouble to find out. I think the SRC is beginning to look at addressing that, informing people. I was in a brainstorming session for how we could get more people to vote, with the SRC, which was very productive, I think. Needing to engage with students more.
C But yet when I talk to the Presidents of SRC or, now the Student Association, they nearly always tell me; 'Oh yes in general students are apathetic, but for my election it was a bigger turn out.' I remember Alex Cole-Hamilton, for example, said that.
RC Yes. I think Alex would!
C Because of, he said, the rather high profile campaign
RC Yes, I think the sabbatical election, the election for the four posts take place on the same day. Which is good. The turn out for that is higher.
C Fifteen percent?
RC Yes, between fifteen and twenty percent, but that's because these people go out and campaign and there's posters up all over the campus. It was particularly good this year, because there are people competing for each post, and there are actually three people contesting the Vice President representation.
C That's the one you ran in?
RC That's the one I ran in yes.
C Lost on a recount you told me.
RC Yes by seventy-four votes or something I think it was.
C Miserable, I am sorry.
RC But it was good fun, I only wish I had more time to campaign. It was the week after the Easter holidays and I didn't get back until the Tuesday, I was on holiday, the election was on the Thursday, so. ..
C That's a short run in.
RC So I had time to put up posters and that was all I managed to do, apart from handing out flyers and things.
C By what you have told me about your future career, it's sounds as if the Gaudie editorship is the key training [?]
RC Yes. I had been interested in politics, well I have always been interested in politics, and with Gaudie I'd seen a lot of the behinds the scenes politics, and joined in in a quiet way by the way you wrote articles. They were unbiased, really. Choose what to cover and what not, and ..
C Not biased on one subject?
RC Yes. So it was quite interesting. I thought I would stand, partly because I believe that to get people to vote you have to make them more interested, and the more people that stand, the more people will vote, because the campaigns will be more high profile. Last year, the first year the Students Association was quite sad. Two people ran for President and two people ran for Union President, but only one for Representation, and one for Sport. Not that the people who were elected haven't done a good job, but I think it was sad because there was no real campaign to get people interested.
C What would you say are the sort of big matters about which students should be concerned? Are they ones within the University, or do you think students ought to be part of a wider world, perhaps more of a European style, you know, finding out things about how the world works?
RC I think it's very much up to the individual student.
C You see what I am getting at, you are saying that they are apathetic, I'm saying what should they be active about?
RC Yes, Yes. I think everyone who is a student should get involved with campaigns, say for a grant, and abolishing fees, and what not, some people did not even bother get involved with that. That's the thing that's going to hit them hardest, it effects every single student. And there are other things, like the environment, again it depends if you are interested or not, but if you are interested you should be do something about it, rather than saying 'Oh yes, let's save the environment' and not doing anything.
C Within the University itself or not, I've asked you to mention outside issues?
RC Well the environment's is an all over issue. You know because there is recycling within the University and then there is things like Faslane, you know nuclear protests, there is bits of both, and fees and grants is outwith with the University, but you can work with the SRC who constantly prepare discussion documents and lobby Parliament, and to help to decide what to do. But most of the rest of the issues it depends what you are interested in, there are lots which affect most students.
C One thing that characterises the period on which you've been commenting is that we've had an unusually high profile Rector. A lot of Rectors are absolute no no's, but with Clarissa Dickson Wright, I mean you have had a very active Rector, I would guess?
RC Well I was impressed to begin with, she was here a lot and doing a lot, but lately she has not been turning up to things, I think she has only been in Aberdeen twice this year, or something like that. I saw her at the Torcher parade, and I saw her at some dinner. She didn't even make the Students Association inaugural dinner, she got her dates mixed up or something. She seems to do that quite a bit! I have to say I am not impressed with Clarissa. From outwith the University she's quite good I think, but speaking from the perspective of someone who sees a lot of what she does, or should be doing, then she is not doing very well at the moment.
C But you supported her at the time, you were pleased when she was elected?
RC Yes, I did.
C Difficult post to fill for somebody who doesn't seriously [?]
RC Yes I think it is difficult, particularly if you are not local, don't actually live here, or someone with Clarissa's TV commitments and things, I understand she has other commitments, but again I feel that if you do commit yourself to be Rector, you should commit the time as well. On the whole I think she has done a good job.
C Ok, just winding up, on this sort of point, you're someone who has been interested in student politics, you have been involved through Gaudie and otherwise looking back on your four years here, could you in any way characterise what you think has been particularly striking regarding student views and how they have generally changed? Does anything particularly strike you? Like issues about the environment - without doing much about it - you know, is there any sort of big change of that kind?
RC I think it's been an interesting period with the foundation of the Scottish Parliament, when all the things about fees, tuition fees, being abolished, well brought back in and then abolished.
C What about the Scottish Parliament? I mean, has it made people committed to politics because it is there?
RC I think it's made, well maybe not the student body as a whole, but definitely the people who work within the SRC more aware that they can, and they are more likely to make a difference. The Scottish Parliament are more likely to listen than Westminster and of course it concerns all the, well I don't know how many students there are in Scotland, but it only concerns them and not all the English students of which there are far more.
C That's not a strictly political interest then, it's a more what one might call a mechanistic interest in how the system works rather than the question, for example of supporting Labour or SNP, or whoever. That kind of support must have increased as a result of devolution.
RC No, unfortunately I think, students are still apathetic.
C In the sense of being [?]
RC I don't think it is, you are either interested in politics or you are not. I don't think it's made a difference bringing it closer to home.
C Ok, I am thinking of you personally, four years, you have got a lot out of it obviously. Are there things which we haven't touched on, that you'd like to bring out, I mean one of the things, for example, which interests to me, but might not have been relevant in your case, is whether you got any particular kinds of help from the University's caring people, we pride ourselves on having quite a good welfare system.
RC I went a couple of times to see Catriona Freeman at the Student Welfare, it's Jim Henderson that's the other one. Which was problems with, well it was actually problems with the University accommodation.
C Was she helpful, was she able to support you?
RC She was. She was excellent.
C Was she just a good listening ear, or did things actually change?
RC She was a very good listening ear, and pointed me in the right direction. She is there to facilitate more than do things. She is there to help and I think the network is very good.
C Was your Adviser active, or wasn't that relevant as you were so clear as to what you wanted to do?
RC I think I only once went to see my Adviser to change course. It was in second year, and she was actually away on maternity leave, so I had to see someone else.
C So you weren't able to forge a close personal relationship.
RC But no the Advisers in honours were fine in both departments, and I knew what courses I was doing.
C Careers, did you use them or didn't you…?
RC Didn't use them at all. No. Apart from a couple of Career Fairs, but I have been very fortunate.
C A trouble-free life?
RC Yes.
C Is there anything else then, Roy, that we haven't touched on that you would like to mention?
RC Dunbar Hall, I think that we mentioned earlier. As I said I loved my time there. There is nothing special about the building itself, because it's a bit of a dump! It is one of these sixties concrete blocks.
C It did win a Civic Award when it was built!
RC Probably did at the time. Yes, but no, it is not a dump, that's the wrong word...
C I know it is deteriorating a lot inside…
RC Yes but, it's a shame. I understand there is lack of funding, but I would rather see them get rid of parts of Hillhead. Dunbar, I think everyone who knows Dunbar agrees, that it was by far the most friendly and sociable hall, partly because it is the smallest. I think, I still pass people I don't know, but I recognise as being in Dunbar and say "Hi" to them. You just, without knowing everyone, at least you knew everyone's face, and a very good social side of things, and a great relationship with the Sub-Wardens.
C How much to they impinge because most of them nowadays are mature students are they not?
RC Yes, not at all really. My bedroom was actually right next to my Sub-Warden's room and I won't say I hardly saw him, but...
C He didn't feature largely in your life?
RC I don't think I was a particularly bothersome student! So..
C Nevertheless the hall generated a certain spirit which grabbed its residents.
RC Yes, a sort of a community..
C I wonder how that was done, it's very interesting, other than size.
RC Yes, I don't know. It is something that is very specific to Dunbar. Which was another thing. We started a 'Save Dunbar' campaign in the Gaudie. We got petitions going and things, which unfortunately had no effect! I think the decision had already been made by the time we got wind of it.
C Oh dear [?]
RC It's a shame, it's a shame.
C Ok, well that's been very, very interesting Roy, and I just pray that it's on the tape!
RC Hope so!
C Thank you very much for your time.
RC No problem.
END OF INTERVIEW
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