| Administrative History | In 1986 the general council of the University of Aberdeen invited Sir Kenneth to serve as Chancellor, a position he held for ten years. The university was emerging from harsh University Grants Committee cutbacks; the appointment of a man respected and admired throughout the country by right and left was wise. He was no mere figurehead, but urged the university to make detailed and ambitious plans for its quincentenary. For a decade, despite serious and recurring illness, he was Aberdeen's good friend and guide, assisting major projects, especially in the liberal arts and the study of the rich traditional culture of the region. He was an economist, university administrator, and public servant,. He won a scholarship to George Heriot's School, Edinburgh, and after wartime service in the RAF attended the Bonar School of Economics in Dundee, where he was the first student to obtain first-class honours in the London University From 1949 to 1951 Alexander was a research assistant at Leeds University and from 1951 to 1956 he was a lecturer in economics, specializing in industrial relations, at Sheffield University, before taking up a similar lectureship at Aberdeen University from 1957 to 1962. In 1963 he was appointed to the newly created chair of economics at Strathclyde University. He held this post until 1980, but was no ivory-tower scholar, serving as a member of the advisory committee on the University of the Air (later to become the Open University) in 1965, and becoming dean of the Scottish Business School from 1973 to 1975; he also began a lengthy connection with shipbuilding in 1966, when he joined the board of Fairfields (Glasgow) as a non-executive director. Its warship yard at Govan was in receivership, with work brought to a standstill by a communist-led sit-in of the workers, but he helped to negotiate a settlement in which the unions abandoned some restrictive practices in return for guaranteed employment. Taken into government ownership, the yard became part of Upper Clyde Shipbuilders Ltd in 1968, and Alexander served as a director from 1968 to 1971. Although threatened with ‘lame duck’ closure by the government of Edward Heath, Upper Clyde Shipbuilders were once more rescued and reconstituted as Govan Shipbuilders, on whose board Alexander served as chairman from 1974 to 1976. At Aberdeen he strengthened his links with the trade union and Workers' Educational Association movements, especially through the secretary to the trades council, James Milne, and Lord Provost Rae, and became very active in the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament. He became chairman of the North Angus and Mearns Labour Party, and was prominent in the campaign to adopt Bob Hughes (later MP for Aberdeen North), whose anti-apartheid stance he greatly admired. Knighted in 1978, he was made deputy lieutenant of Fife in 1992.Between 1976 and 1980 he was granted leave of absence from Strathclyde to chair the Highlands and Islands Development Board, which was then concerned with the vexed question of highland land use. Radical proposals, including compulsory purchase from obstructive absentee landlords, fell with the Labour government in 1979, but later prompted many land reforms, including those enacted by the Scottish parliament.
|
| Description | Interview with Sir Kenneth Alexander recorded on 17 July 1999 by John Hargreaves
Transcript of Interview :
JH. Sir Kenneth you joined the University of Aberdeen, I think, in 1957?
KA. Yes, in January 1957.
JH. And you came to us from...?
KA. From the University of Sheffield,
JH. Why did you apply for a job in Aberdeen?
KA. First, how did I know about the job in Aberdeen? I wasn't looking for a job at the time but I was certainly very interested in coming back to Scotland. Alec Cairncross told a friend of mine at Glasgow University he had travelled on a train with Henry Hamilton who said he was looking for somebody for a lectureship in Aberdeen. The explanation was that Fraser Noble had left to go to the Carnegie Trust. I didn't see the advertisement but I wrote to say that I would be interested and I was invited to an interview. I was interviewed by the Principal, and I seem to remember a lay member of Court connected with the bookshop in Aberdeen..
JH. Dr John Milne?
KA. Yes. The interview was unusually timed. I was somewhat shaken when the Principal, looking at my CV in front of him, said - I see you come from the North of England. My CV said I came from Edinburgh but I didn't realise that was a joke. I didn't really respond except to nod wisely.
JH. What was your impression of the department of Political Economy at that time?
KA. My impression before I arrived was not terribly favourable, I must say, and that was because my degree was from the University of London examined by the London School of Economics and was certainly more up to date, if I can put it that way, than what was taught in the majority of Economics departments in Scotland. What I knew about these departments I mainly knew from my wife and friends, students at Edinburgh University. and I imagined that Aberdeen would be much the same. So I arrived believing that I was bringing something new to the department. But I have to say that the quality of the students was markedly higher than at Sheffield, and I rapidly realised that I wasn't really a missionary at all, I was among highly intelligent people who were reading a great deal of economics even if they weren't necessarily being taught all of it in the department.
JH. Yes, that's very interesting. What about your colleagues - I mean had this quality been induced during their time in the department?
KA. Well, I shared a room with Denys Munby, who was a first class economist and a very lively teacher and a good colleague. The linchpin of the department was Annie Macdonald who at one time taught at the LSE as a matter of fact. I didn't regard her as terribly up to date with how economics had developed at the end of the 1950s but she was so devoted to students and giving them every opportunity to show what they had to show that she was a terribly valuable member of the department. The students sometimes found her rather different from what they had expected in an economics department. Then, teaching statistics but not in our department, there was Peter Fisk. And there were two Assistants.
JH. What was your view of Henry Hamilton? He was a splendid economic historian; how was he as head of a department of Political Economy?
KA. Well, he was not forceful in that respect. Fraser Noble and Denys Munby were really leading the Economics part of the department.. Henry taught the first year course, at least when Senate and Committees didn't prevent him from doing so. Denys and I sat in our room on the appropriate afternoons expecting - and often having our expectations fulfilled - that we would get a call from Henry about ten to four saying would we do the lecture, which was always a bit of a challenge.
JH. Was he a good lecturer?
KA. Yes: I didn't hear him lecture but I think he was a good lecturer. But his idea of first year economics was rather different from Denys Munby's and mine.
JH. You were telling me he had old-fashioned ideas about class certificates?
KA. Well, yes. We abandoned the class certificate when I was there I think. But he believed that if people were to get class certificates they ought to be able to demonstrate they had attended fairly regularly at lectures. I remember particularly that one of his students in one of the years when I was there was Miss Scotland, also the daughter of Professor R V Jones in Physics. A very beautiful girl. He told me one day that he was afraid she was not attending his lectures and ought not to get a class certificate. I asked him what the evidence was that she wasn't attending, and he said: "Well I always look for her first." On these grounds I advised him not to proceed with his policy of denying her a class certificate.
JH. What are your recollections of the University community at that time, of which we were both members? It was certainly much smaller than nowadays.
KA. Well I suppose my recollections have to begin in the Senior Common Room. which I frequented perhaps more than I ought to have done, and where I met many interesting people and greatly admired the quality of most of them. It was a very friendly University. in which one could believe in a community of scholars. The Senior Common Room sustained and strengthened that view. But the negative thing in my view was the then Principals devotion to the lifestyle of the University and in particular to King's College and Old Aberdeen. His reluctance to see the University expand at the rate which was then taking place in other universities in the UK troubled me considerably. And other young academics too. John, I can say to you as one of those that a group of us used to meet and - although we had no great muscle within the system - to discuss what we regarded as the difficulties and opportunities. Thinking of that group now, one became professor of Education at the University, and you became Professor of History. David Weir who was in the sociology department became professor at Glasgow and then head of the Business School at Bradford. Also in the sociology department there was....
JH. Raymond Illsley?
KA. That group and its irregular functioning was a reflection of the fear of some younger academics that Aberdeen was losing its place - not just numerically of course. Numbers don't matter as much as some people thought they did. Some people would now argue that that size of the Political Economy department in 1958 just could not teach the subject adequately. But I think we proved we could and we turned out students who proved it. I would resist the argument that a department must have a minimum size. At one time the UGC was saying that a good department ought to have twenty people in it. That was quite impossible in Aberdeen at that stage, given student numbers. Maybe that was one of the factors that motivated us to wish the Principal was more keen on expansion, but more than that was the feeling that the University might be damaged if it stayed the size it was. It would be damaged in reputation because the question would be asked why, and people would not understand the emotional commitment (which I understand perfectly well, because I Ioved Old Aberdeen) which was not to change things too much.
JH. Yes, I remember the group you mention well. We used to meet in one another's houses, didn't we? It might be worth putting on record that this was not the same as the Inter-Faculty Group which ran under the auspices of the AUT.
KA. Yes, it was quite separate. We hand-picked ourselves.
JH. But it is an interesting point that there was at that period much more mixing among colleagues not just within the faculty of Arts and Social Sciences but across the University.
KA. Yes. I never got closely involved with the AUT in Aberdeen. Oddly enough I had been very closely involved in Sheffield, and had represented Sheffield AUT at conferences and soon, but I managed not to get involved in Aberdeen. There were additional teaching burdens in a small department and I had to spread myself further than at Sheffield. I came from Sheffield with a special interest in Industrial relations and I soon had to shed that largely if not completely and get into some more mainstream teaching. and that imposed a time limitation.
JH. You mentioned quality of students, which was the experience of many of us in other departments as well. Would you recall any of your students of this time?
KA. To be frank, I have difficulty with names. I recall Peter Henderson who teaches Economics now in New Zealand. Interestingly enough when Alec Cairncross came to Aberdeen during the Quincentenary celebrations he had been external examiner here for a number of years (which amazed me because he was also advising the government at the time) and he asked me particularly about this chap and after all these years remembered his papers and admired his work. There was Roger Davidson, who became Secretary of Shell UK. Alex Kemp is now a professor in Aberdeen, and another outstanding student, David Forsyth, is Professor of Economics in, I think, Fiji. Then of course there was Donald Mackay. One who became a close friend with whom I've remained in correspondence was of course Charlie Allan. So there were some very high quality students.
JH. And this was not because the schools had made any particular preparations in regard to Political Economy?
KA. No, almost all came without any background. But that is what the four year Honours course allowed them to do.
JH. You also, I think did not confine yourself to campus. What are your memories of civic society in Aberdeen?
KA. My main extramural work some of it was related to the University. I went to a number of University Weeks representing the University in the Highlands and Islands and enjoyed that greatly.
JH. Just remind us of a typical University week in the 50s and what it meant.
KA. About four or five Aberdeen academics would go to Shetland, for example, and we'd be greeted by the municipality. A purpose of our visit would be to interest students and visit schools, but we'd also have sessions to which the public were invited - two or three of us together talking on different aspects. It really was a stay of 4 or 5 days visiting three or four places, making speeches and lectures in afternoons and evenings and meeting local leaders and celebrities. A genuine attempt by the University to establish itself with a local community.
JH. Yes. It was very much more than the recent system of visits for schools liaison?
KA. It was a sort of extra-mural activity, but it was way beyond that. It was a socialising and teaching and responding to questions, and people talking about their own children who had been or were at Aberdeen University. All of that came together during these weeks. I don't whether anything of that sort continues now?
JH. I don't think it has for some time. And in the City of Aberdeen?
KA. Well, in the city of Aberdeen my links were on the one hand with the Trade Union movement, and that went back to the fact that I had been a specialist in Industrial Relations at Sheffield., I knew about Jimmy Milne before I came to Aberdeen, I'd read about him but not met him ...
JH. Jimmy Milne, the Secretary of the Trades Council?
KA. The Secretary of the Trades Council. I became a very close friend of his and greatly admired the man for his intellect and his integrity and his energy, and the effort he put into his job. Not through him but independently - it was a hangover I suppose from Sheffield - I gave lectures in Huntly and In Aberdeen to members of the Transport and General Workers Union. A Lord Provost who recently died ...
JH. Provost Rae?
KA. Provost Rae was one of the students in Huntly. I don't know why he travelled to Huntly to do it. But I used to travel to Huntly from Stonehaven - I was living in Stonehaven - on winter nights - it was a bit crazy - through the Glens of Foudland to teach these potential trade union officials about industrial relations. So there was a connection with the Trades Council, largely with James Milne, and some work with the Trade Unions and with the WEA and there was the fact that I was a very active CND member at the time. Henry Hamilton spoke to me about that and said perhaps I ought not to be quite so active in the CND as I was, and that occurred because there was a picture in the Press & Journal of Angela pushing a pram down Union Street at some demonstration or other. But I just stood my ground about that.
JH. He didn't press it?
KA. He didn't press it. And then about halfway through my six-year period I became Chairman of the North Angus & Mearns Labour Party which then adopted …
JH. Bob Hughes?
KA. Bob Hughes as candidate and I was active in the campaign. Bob Hughes was a person I admired greatly for his part in the Anti-Apartheid campaign. Despite that, and despite the intensity of the campaign, I must say that Alick Buchanan-Smith and I remained very good friends. I think that was largely up to his good nature and breadth of vision rather than to mine.
[Additional note by Sir Kenneth Alexander:
Folk Song:
Folk song has been a longstanding interest and Aberdeen presented the opportunity of meeting a number of the 'living legends' of this branch of culture. Hamish Henderson the great collector and song-writer is a great friend and used to stay at our home in Stonehaven when he travelled north from his base in the School of Scottish Studies. Through Hamish I met Jeannie Robertson and used to visit her in her pre-fab house in Montgomery Road, Hayton, near King's College. I ran a few concerts at which Jeannie sang, sometimes with Jimmy MacBeath and on one occasion with the American Pete Seeger. In the Music Hall in Aberdeen I organised a concert in June 1960 for the Left Club which brought together folk singers and Sandy West's Jazzmen. The singers were Jeannie and Jimmy, the Stewart sister from Fetterangus and Dolina Maclennan from Lewis. This event was a great success and played some part in stimulating interest in folk music in Aberdeen. An announcement was made that a ballad club would be established in the city and the late Arthur Argo took the initiative on that.]
JH. And in 1962 you moved on to the Chair at Strathclyde and another chapter. What did you take from Aberdeen that you most valued at that time?
KA. Oh well - I suppose the role which Denys had played, and which I then began to play as leader in the Political Economy Department stood me in very good stead when I went to Strathclyde and had to establish the department from scratch. I had essentially been leading a small department in Aberdeen. Incidentally I didn't mention the two Assistants because it shows the quality of people we had: one, Kenneth Walker, became Professor of the Economics of China at SOAS and the Other was H W Richardson who actually I advised - and you won't agree with this, John -to become an economist because of the career opportunities. He became the leading regional economist in the USA. This is just a measure of the quality of the department of Political Economy. Although it was small I claim it was a very good department. So when I went to Strathclyde I went with some experience of leadership in Economics. But I had a greatly complicated task. When I went there, there was nobody, but within a year I was having to take on board a substantial number of staff from what had been the central teaching institution in Glasgow which was brought into Strathclyde. as well as appointing a substantial number of new people. As you may imagine a number of Aberdonians came to my department from time to time including David Forsyth and a number of others went to Aberdeen.
JH. Just two questions come to mind. Economic History was I think still within the department of Political Economy: was there very close contact?
KA. No, there wasn't very close contact. It's a surprise really but one I couldn't do much about.
JH. In view of Professor Hamilton's background …?
KA. It didn't change much even after he died.
JH. Finally, do you have any regrets that it is now no longer a department of Political Economy?
KA. Yes I do. You could say that the regret I have is a marketing man's regret. Departments of Political Economy are coming back into their own, or the subject is coming back. Having one of the few departments left that had that name it seemed unfortunate to give it up. People were tiring a little of Econometrics as the heart of the discipline and coming to realise that on policy questions there was a need to have close links with subjects like Sociology and Economic History so that students put some flesh on the bones of the subject as it were. Economists have tended to over-emphasise in my view, theory. It has given them a certain feeling of intellectual leadership but I don't think it has greatly improved what they have taught to students or contribute to Society.
JH. This interview is not concerned with your very distinguished career after you left the University in 1962 but we will continue with the close ties which resolved when you were elected as Chancellor in 1987. To many people the office of Chancellor is shrouded in mist and obscurity. Did you know how you came to be elected?
KA. I don't really know. Let me give you the background. The suggestion was put to me by Principal George McNicol on the telephone when I was in Venice attending a conference. Interestingly enough, other delegates were also Aberdeen graduates; Sandy Fenton and George Bruce. George McNicol phoned and said the suggestion had been made that I should become Chancellor. There would have to be an election and there might be other candidates, but was I willing to stand? I must confess to having been very very surprised by the invitation but of course I was delighted. And I celebrated the thought, if not the fact, with George Bruce and Sandy Fenton. How it arose I don't know. It would be immodest of me to suggest the impression I had given to George McNicol at a meeting of Principals and Courts at the Burn when I had explained to the Courts what was going to happen to them - most of them had not the least idea. It seemed to be plain as a pikestaff that, having taken the University system and the new colleges in England firmly under the wing of the Department of Education and Science the same process of broadening the university base by bringing in the Central Institutions would take place in Scotland. We would be part of a Scottish separate system rather than left with the Department of Education and Science. That was received with astonishment by the meeting but I was so confident that I expressed it with as much force as I could and I think that impressed Principal George McNicol. The surprise was that George McNicol and I were very different animals politically and indeed I'm told that Robbie Ewen, the Secretary of Glasgow University, now sadly dead, and the Principal there discussed my appointment, apparently somewhat surprised by it. George MacNicol and I we differed in our politics and also to some extent in our personalities. I would want to say however that it is quite wrong to dismiss George McNicol as in any way having been unfortunate for the University of Aberdeen. He introduced approaches perhaps which were not well suited to the University but his objectives were clear and proper and he had some success in their pursuit. Mainly in the lobbying of the UGC. I wasn't there to see that part of it, but it is certainly the impression I have and nothing has changed it. From what I learned within the University since. Now the other element I know nothing about, because one doesn't ask, is what part Molly Gauld played in the actual decision to choose me -I think some but I don't know how much or whether George McNicol called the shots totally. But Molly Gauld was certainly enormously supportive and I am very pleased to have established the relationship I did with her after I was appointed. But as I say I was at this conference in Venice and was called to the phone to speak to the Principal of Aberdeen University. Frankly ,my heart sank for at that time I had a daughter who was a researcher in the Education department and the only reason I could think of why the Principal was contacting me would be to tell me something had happened to my daughter. So I was doubly pleased to get the message that there was a possibility that I might became the Chancellor.
JH. How do you define the responsibilities of the Chancellor? I don't suppose you were give a job specification?
KA. No but my attention was drawn to the fact that the Chancellor had no powers. Threes a bit of print which states that very clearly - the role is largely decorative, but the University can make more of it if it so wishes. I was always very happy when they did that. There was one built-in responsibility and that was to chair the annual financial meeting of the University and that was helpful I think. One always depends very much on the Principal who has all the information and whom one has to turn to.
JH. Is this obligation to chair a meeting statutory?
KA. I was led to believe it was, but I'm not so sure. I didn't question it because I was glad to have at least one role in the University. Apart, of course, from my role at graduation. But there are now so many graduation ceremonies in a University the size of Aberdeen that one is not expected to perform at all of them. And it's a very good thing that other people should have the experience of making the address . That is the main public role of the Chancellor. Of course my public role was extended during the Quincentenary. One of my very happiest moments was when I received, on behalf of the University, the freedom of the City of Aberdeen. I did other things during the Quincentenary on behalf of the University that I would never have had the opportunity to do during a normal year.
JH. Are you talking now of ceremonial things or more practical things?
KA. Well you know, John, how enthusiastic I was about the various historical things which took place around and prior to the Quincentenary, I was allowed to chair some of these and it was were enormously interesting to sit among old and new colleagues and to hear their comments on various aspects of the history of the University.
JH. You were extremely supportive.
KA. Then occasionally other departments asked me to chair a seminar, but the History department seemed most active. I think the University should make more use of its Chancellors. Even if they have nothing special to bring they may help to attract an audience and are usually capable chairmen. And it's part of their education in University affairs. When David Wilson was my Assessor on the Court, he and I talked many times of spending a day together in the University and going to visit various departments. But we never managed to find the dates! The idea of us doing it together seemed right because otherwise you might find the Chancellor and his representative on the Court moving apart.
JH. Did you ever attend Court meetings yourself?
KA. Never. I received the papers, but I didn't regard them as an invitation to attend
JH. Were you invited to comment on the papers? Did you comment?
KA. There were a very few occasions when I thought some misunderstanding must have arisen. This relates to the period when the Chairman of the Highland Board, Sir Robert Cowen, was an Assessor. There was an issue which I had raised with him and it didn't seem to square with the Minute. Other wise George McNicol and I talked on the phone - not a lot but not infrequently either. And we talked a great deal of course when I was up for graduation ceremonies, and I was able to catch up on events and raised queries which had arisen from reading the papers, as I always did.
JH. Did he seek your advice, as distinct from you raising queries?
KA. Well, I wouldn't put it as seeking advice, but he did raise and discuss matters ... Yes, he did.
JH. What about fund-raising? Particularly during the Quincentenary, but at all times it is a preoccupation of vice-chancellors.
KA. Well, the only explicit fund-raising was when I went on foreign visits during the Quincentenary year, and there I was doing two things: re-establishing contact with graduates and having social relations with them, but never missing the opportunity to raise questions of finance. and sometimes making a visit or a phone call if I had been tipped off about a person or institution who might be helpful. But the fund-raising process was hardly ever an instant response process. It was long drawn-out and the best I could do was to pass on information to George McNicol. I have to report that on one occasion, when I was with Roddy Begg and Roddy referred to the fact that the University hoped to sell Marischal College as an hotel and someone at once stormed up and said we would never get a penny in these circumstances, and I think she got some support from the audience. One has to be very careful because at that distance the capacity to understand wasn't there, nor was the opportunity to expand in great detail.
JH. To ask a slightly delicate question: what about your contacts with Robert Maxwell on behalf of the University?
KA. The story is very straightforward. The Aberdeen University Press, which to my amazement had been sold to Robert Maxwell before I came back as Chancellor, was run by an Aberdeen Graduate, Colin Maclean, very successfully, and there was nothing to worry about so long as Colin was at the helm. He seemed to have a magic touch with Maxwell although the Press was losing money. When his retirement was coming into view I took it on myself to write to Maxwell and say that getting the right replacement was very important and that if I could help I would like to do so. Now I must back track to a period when I was at Stirling. Stirling gave an honorary degree, in London, to a Mr Wang, who was opening a factory on the campus, as Mr Wang was unwilling to travel beyond London. Maxwell was a guest at that function and asked me whether I could do anything for him. I replied "I don't think so Mr Maxwell, but if you can think of anything you can write to me." But of course he never did and I didn't really want him to. I never followed it up. On this occasion it was different because Aberdeen's interests were involved and he then responded with the proposal that I chair Aberdeen University Press. The senior member of Maxwell's staff in Oxford thought I ought to stabilise the situation, I found Maxwell extremely easy to deal with - generous and I was able to get good conditions for the man I had chosen to succeed Colin. Then Maxwell went over the edge. I don't think Aberdeen University Press was in any way involved, and certainly Maxwell didn't make any money out of it. I was very sad to see it go. But I must say I think it was a great mistake to sell to Maxwell in the first place; that was where the trouble started.
JH. But it never established itself as a publishing house until that extra capital went in?
KA. True. Maxwell's hidden agenda at that time, I know, was to take over the Scottish University presses and add them to his empire built round Aberdeen. If he could have got Edinburgh he might have succeeded. There was also interest shown in Scottish Academic Press; these were all in his sights. It fitted very well with his scholarly journals. I ought perhaps to have been more careful in dealing with him because I had heard how badly he had treated Monty Finniston who was Chancellor of Stirling University. Offering him the chairmanship of his press empire, then taking fright and cancelling the offer. But there was nothing financially in it that damaged Aberdeen University. What damaged them was the loss of support they could have got from Maxwell at the time.
JH. Could I ask you to comment from your unrivalled position how the University under successive Principals coped with difficult times? Having been Vice-Chancellor of Stirling you had a very good basis for commenting. You have spoken of George McNicol already; would you care to take that a little further?
KA. I think he had a very difficult role to play. His personality was the difficulty in as much as he didn't seem to succeed in carrying people with him in the direction he thought they ought to go. As I suggested earlier, I think this was often indeed the direction in which to go. If, in the process, one damages relations ... The sense of a community of scholars is so important and I don't think he had much of that. As he'd been head of a Medical School that's not surprising - that is much more of a managerial job than leading a University. George was a manager but the University was not used to being managed. That's where the conflicts and misunderstandings and mistrust arose.
JH. Would you regard him as having been a good manger?
KA. A good manager, because he was clear about what had to be done, but I couldn't regard him as a good manager of human relations.
JH. Exactly. But from the point of view of the strategy to be pursued ? Were there other strategies which might have allowed the University to survive better? You suggested you approved his objectives?
KA. Yes. I think he was right. Sometimes I think the University was trying to do things it couldn't do well or was just too late to do: for example - though this was more the idea of his successor -- the idea of having a Business School didn't seem to me likely to succeed. One of the troubles is that fashions change among the administrative class, and chasing fashions can be a great waste of energy. By and large George McNicol tried to build on what he had. Rightly or wrongly he was very critical of the Medical School he had come to and I think that coloured everything else about his attitude to the University. At times he seemed almost to despair of the University making the kind of mark which he thought a University of its age and quality ought to. I think his view was much coloured by his view of the Medical School he wondered whether good people would join it, in preference to Edinburgh and Glasgow. I knew from my own experience that in several departments that was quite wrong. But whether his judgement was right or not I really don't know. There was no way I could judge one medical school against another.
JH. Would you like to comment on the fortunes of the University under Maxwell Irvine?
*KA. Well he was a totally different personality: warm, and sometimes a bit temperamental. Very positive. But these sudden changes in personality at the top are bound to create difficulties; there's no way to overcome that but it was a very big change. Much more optimism about the University: much less open criticism - to me at least - of the University.
JH. Do you think the optimism can be attributed to the leadership? Was it just coincidence perhaps that fortunes were improving ?
KA. The optimism which Maxwell Irvine had was a change. But certainly George McNicol's success in getting extra money from the funding council - and then not needing to spend it - was a great boost for the University, so the optimism would be there when Maxwell Irvine arrived. But he came with a different attitude, and I think there was a very considerable enthusiasm in the University when he came. Sometimes I think his enthusiasm carried him away a little. Certainly on the financial side his views on how much the University would be able to raise compared with what was raised through the Quincentenary activities, were optimistic.
JH. What's your view of the financial success of the Quincentenary? You probably don't have figures in your head, but do you have any idea of what the Quincentenary meant in financial terms?
KA. No, I don't have figures, and I have to be very careful here. All I can say is that at the final party -and I don't have date - but it was addressed by Sir Dennis Henderson of ICI and figures were quoted which at that moment I had not thought had been achieved, and to my knowledge, I've never seen any evidence that these figures actually were achieved. There was optimism then about money which hadn't come in, and that reflects the over-optimism I was referring to earlier. But I could be wrong about this; that requires close examination within the University, not off the cuff responses by me this afternoon. Maxwell Irvine was an enthusiastic Principal: hard-working, perhaps a little over-optimistic. But I think as he moved in the circle of Vice-chancellors he saw possibilities which attracted him and led to him going to Birmingham. I was sorry about that. I thought the period was too short and Aberdeen had never been used to a Principal who upped sticks and left. It was bad for the University psychologically at that particular time. But with hindsight, now he has been replaced by Duncan Rice I don't think there is any reason to regard that period as in any sense a failure. Both McNicol and Irvine had different roles to play and though Maxwell Irvine can be regarded as some sort of healer I think that would be unfair, for he was a pusher as well. He took up at a difficult time - less difficult than that which George McNicol had lived through - and in that time had some success. But possibly over-optimism was built into his personality.
JH. Was your election as a Chancellor for a fixed term, or was the date of retirement your decision?
KA. Yes, there was no fixed term . I'd been used to a fixed term at Stirling and thought there was something to be said for a fixed term, but I had decided partly on health grounds that it was time I gave it up. But that feeling was consolidated when I understood my assessor of Court would be willing to become Chancellor if the timing was right. At that stage I was confident that the timing was right for me and would be for the University.
JH. A difficult question to put to a modest man like you in view of what you've said about the Chancellors role: what if anything do you think you achieved as Chancellor?
KA. I don't know that I achieved a lot, or that it would be possible in that role to have achieved a lot. But the first thing I achieved was in the choice of Honorary graduates when I was installed, because I was deliberately there emphasising the quality history of Aberdeen itself.
JH. Just remind me of who they were?
KA. The one who was not an Aberdeen graduate was Jessie Kesson; she was remarkable tribute to the quality of Aberdeenshire. There was a young man who was a student when I d been there who was a President of the Economic Society, Professor David Hendry; there was a Nobel prize-winner, Richard Synge who had been at the Rowett Institute and taught at the University and he was a personal friend - a touch of cronyism but I thought it was appropriate; and Andrew Noble, son of Sir Peter Scott Noble, a former Professor of Humanity whom I had met when I was a member of the Social Science Research Council and he as a businessman was chairing one of the sub-committees of the Council. So they all had close Aberdeen connections. Otherwise I had a principle that in my graduation addresses I never girned about the financial position of the University. I know that Vice-chancellors had to do that but I tried to strike two notes really. One about the history of the University and its powerful position in the community; Two the quality of its work and its students. I always tried to use my public role to emphasise the quality of the University, rather than tying to make a case. There was no need to do that. What else? Some success I think as an ambassador for the University during the quincentenary year and maybe some bit of staff morale raising in various ways. I think that would be about it.
End of Interview
|