| Description | Interview with Dr Gertrude Rennie (nee Lendrum), recorded on 11 March 1994 by Myrtle Anderson-Smith, with Mrs Evelyn Shirran
Transcript of Interview :
AS: Dr Rennie, I believe you were born in India?
GR: I was.
AS: How many years did you stay - in India?
GR: About two, I think.
AS: And how did it come about that you were born in India?
GR: My father was a missionary.
AS: Yes. Do you remember anything about it?
GR: No. I was too young.
AS: So when you came home from India, where did you live?
GR: In Elgin.
AS: And what led you to study medicine?
GR: I think just contact with all these women missionaries that used to come to us, you see.
ES: Were they all doctors?
GR: Yes. You see, I was supposed to have been brought into the world by a doctor who lived in Devanha House here. Henderson, her name was. She was on leave … and her deputy, whose parents went to Queen's Cross Church, I'm told. And they were very early doctors, you see.
AS: Yes.
ES: Was she a graduate of Aberdeen?
GR: I don't know. I suppose so. I don't know. I've never thought about her since then. But I know she was on leave home to Devanha House.
ES: Yes.
AS: So that it was something you grew up with, always knowing you wanted to be a doctor?
GR: I always wanted. I don't know why.
AS: And did you consider going anywhere other than Aberdeen University?
GR: No, I didn't, because it was the obvious university to go to.
AS: Were there many women students in your year?
GR: Twenty-four in our year.
AS: Out of how many?
GR: You see, it was the war, the First World War, in '15, and they came and went, you know. The men were called up, and, you know, we never knew sort of how many we had. As soon as they had done their second prof. they were called up, you see. But there were quite a lot of men. I think there were about seventy in the class altogether, but …
AS: Are there any particular episodes or characters that you can remember from your years at university?
GR: Not particularly, no.
AS: Do any of the professors stand out in your mind?
GR: Oh, well, we had one or two wonderful professors, like Professor Ashley Mackintosh, who was professor of Medicine. And he was a very well known nerve specialist. Some of them had been … we didn't… Bobby Reid was the anatomy one. He was a sort of well known character, you know, … kind of a character.
ES: Was he a good teacher?
GR: Fair. Couldn't hear what he said always, but he was quite a good enough. He wasn't a teacher like Ashley Mac. He was a wonderful teacher.
AS: I've read that Professor Ashley Mac took a real interest in the patients as whole people?
GR: You've heard that?
AS: Yes. Did you experience that?
GR: He was a very nice man.
AS: Did he teach you to consider the whole welfare of the patients?
GR: Yes, he did; we were very well taught. He did his Arts degree … he was friendly with my father.
ES: It was at University they got to know each other, was it?
GR: Yes. I suppose it was. Yes. They just happened to be doing their MA together, then one went to Divinity and one went to Medicine. Yes. Well, they took me in Nottingham for my first job without an interview because I had been trained by Ashley Mackintosh. And he had had one or two, he'd had two or three Aberdeen ones, and he says I'll take anybody from there, he told me.
ES: He had a good reputation?
GR: He had a very good reputation. Yes.
AS: So, you were aware when you were being taught that this man had a good reputation?
GR: Yes, that was after I was qualified. You know, when I was a resident. I got the job in Nottingham as a resident, and, as I say, they took me without an interview because I was Aberdeen and with Sir Ashley Mac, which was a very good reference, wasn't it?
AS: Yes.
GR: There were other two Aberdeen ones there, in different hospitals.
AS: What about Professor McKerron? Do you remember him?
GR: Oh, the howdy wife! The howdy. Yes. Oh, well, I don't know, he wasn't so ... a bit of a laugh, really.
AS: And then there was Matthew Hay?
GR: Matthew Hay. Well, he was a famous man, of course. It was he who was sort of determined to have another hospital, you know, and had a lot to do with getting Foresterhill. Because that was Woolmanhill we were at, you see.
AS: Yes, I would like to hear about Woolmanhill.
GR: Well, it was just an ordinary hospital, really; quite a big hospital.
AS: You must see tremendous changes between the hospital you worked in then and today's Royal Infirmary?
GR: Yes, yes.
AS: Are there any particular points of contrast that you can bring out?
GR: No, we just had to walk there from Marischal across to Woolmanhill every day to our classes.
AS: Some of your classes, I believe, were at eight o'clock in the morning?
GR: Yes. Botany. And Materia Medica. Yes, Botany at eight o'clock, of all the boring things, with Professor Trail - a trail it was! Yes, eight o'clock in the morning.
AS: Until when at night - in the evening? Until when did your classes go on? From eight in the morning till five? or later?
GR: Well, it just depended how many classes we had that day. Occasionally we had evening classes as well.
AS: And were all your classes at Marischal College?
GR: All at Marischal. I was never at King's, never. No, never.
AS: But some of the teaching was done in the wards at the hospitals?
GR: Oh, yes, at the hospitals, yes: at Woolmanhill and Casualty and the Children's Hospital and it was a fever hospital, the City, then, you know, purely fevers, infectious diseases.
ES: When did you start going to the hospitals? Was it after your second year?
GR: After our second prof., yes.
ES: And when was that?
GR: Well, I started in '15; it must have been '17, I suppose.
ES: Yes, that's after two years at Marischal.
GR: Yes, we didn't go to the hospital for our Anatomy; that was down in Anatomy, at Marischal. And Physiology was Marischal, and Botany was Marischal. Yes, and what-you-me-call-it? Medicine 1 was Marischal, too - Professor Tait. They were all at Marischal these two years. And some of them after, of course. Our Maternity was at Marischal, too.
AS: You did Zoology, as well.
GR: And Zoology; oh, Zoology was a first year one. And that was Arthur Thomson.
AS: Was that something special?
GR: He was very famous, wasn't he? Yes. Professor Arthur Thomson, yes.
AS: And then Chemistry?
GR: Chemistry. Shennan. He was above our heads. You know what I mean?
ES: Yes.
AS: And Physics?
GR: Physics, yes. Who was the famous Physics man?
AS: Niven?
GR: Was it Niven? I suppose it was . He had been there for a while. I've forgotten about him. I hated it, I hated that class.
AS: I know you went to University after the War had started. Were you aware of any big changes that wartime had caused?
GR: Well, I should say in the social side. We had no social life, really. I mean, we had never any dances, or any functions. And a lot of the debates and all that thing, there was nothing of that nature.
AS: It all closed down because of the War?
GR: They were all closed down, yes. Because there were people always being called up, you see. My brother was called - well, he enlisted, when he was eighteen, after doing one year. And he died of his wounds, like so many of the Seaforths, at Ypres.
AS: So really, it was work and more work, while you were at University. No light relief?
GR: Well, we just had to entertain ourselves. We went for walks. And ninepence worth in the Gallery at the Theatre, now and again. And sixpence worth in some of the cinemas, you know. And that was a great treat, of course. We had no money, of course; we had very little money.
AS: Were there societies still functioning?
GR: One or two, but a lot of them weren't. No. I think the Debater went on for a while, but...
AS: You weren't involved in any of them?
GR: No. We had nothing of that, like they have now. No.
ES: You would have had a lot of studying to do, as well?
GR: Yes, we had. We had a lot of studying to do.
AS: And where did you live, if home was in Elgin?
GR: In digs. That was another thing, you see, added to one's expenses, too. We had to just be in digs. There were no what-you-me-call-its? no
ES: Halls of residence?
GR: No halls of residence. There was one, I think, over in Old Aberdeen; I think there was one, a small one; but we had nothing to do with it.
AS: And how did you find your digs?
GR: My mother used to come in in the holidays and go round the names that she was given.
AS: And were you - did you move from place to place during the years?
GR: Well, it depended on what was available. My last year was my sister's first, and we were still in the same lot of digs in Skene Street.
AS: Which was quite convenient for you, then, Skene Street?
GR: Yes, it was all right.
AS: And were they comfortable?
GR: Oh, fair, fair.
AS: Did you manage to study there?
GR: Oh yes, we did our studying there. We had to go visit friends for baths and things like that, you know. There was a doctor retired from Elgin and we went there for our baths.
ES: Was it a tenement house, then?
GR: No, it was just - they are still there, just as you go round from Rose Street into Skene Street, one or two flats, 133.
ES: Oh, yes.
GR: I was in different, several lots of different digs, and very often had to share with somebody that had nothing to do with the family. Oh, I hated that.
ES: Did you landladies give you all your meals?
GR: Yes, oh, yes, we had all our meals, and it was very cheap, when you think about it, you know. Compare it to now.
AS: Have you any recollection of what you paid?
GR: Fifteen bob the first year, I remember. The first digs I had were fifteen bob a week.
ES: It doesn't seem much now?
GR: It was out in Kittybrewster. Because I had arranged with Mr Russell from Causewayend Church, who was a cousin of my father's, and I always was there for my meals on Sunday. You know, I was always there for a lunch, or something, on Sunday. And they were very kind to me.
AS: What did you do at the weekends?
GR: Nothing much. Went for walks, perhaps. Or if it was a decent film, we might rise to it. It depended. We were pleased if anybody came in to see us, you know. If uncle from Inverurie brought chicken legs or something, I mean they were farming people. That was a great treat when relations came and brought things to eat, and that sort of thing.
ES: Did you go to a church on Sunday, then?
GR: Yes, I would usually go to Causewayend, or sometimes I went to the Chapel.
AS: To King's College?
GR: King's College.
AS: So, you did find your way to Old Aberdeen?
GR: Yes, sometimes. It was a long way to go, but I sometimes went to the Chapel, because I liked the choir and the music and that. And then I started going to Queen's Cross, after a while, when Mr Russell retired.
ES: So have you been a member at Queen's Cross for a long time, then?
GR: No, just since I came back from - back to Aberdeen in '48. I wasn't a member before, because I didn't always go there. I used to enjoy the Chapel sometimes. It depended how far away I lived.
AS: Were there any preachers that you particularly remember? Any eminent men who came?
GR: George Adam Smith was the minister, had been a minister …
AS: A Queen's Cross?
GR: Of Queen's Cross. He had been, I don't know if he still was. I can't remember. I think he was. He became the Principal, of course.
AS: Have you any recollections of him?
GR: No, no recollections of him.
AS: Did you get involved in any of the rectorials in your time?
GR: No.
AS: Or Charities Campaigns? Did that continue during the War?
GR: No, I don't remember any Charity things. Oh, our social life was dead. It was nothing, you know. We had a great treat to go and have tea at Kennoways. I can remember that. Do you remember Kennoways?
ES: Yes, I remember Kennoways.
GR: That was a great treat to go there for your tea, occasionally. If anybody came into town, you know. Oh, a tea at Kennoways, that was fine.
ES: It was a very nice place.
GR: Very nice, indeed. I missed it when they closed it.
ES: Yes.
AS: Other people quite prominent around the University are the Sacrists. Do you recall the Sacrists?
GR: Oh, we had a very good Sacrist at Marischal, of course. I can picture him yet. Very fierce he was. But he was all right.
AS: No funny stories that you recall?
GR: No, no. No I was quite dull. We just didn't do anything very much. There was nothing to do, you see. We used to go for walks on Saturday afternoon. There was a cousin from Peterhead. And we used to just think: Oh, we'll go out walking, on the South Deeside Road, or something like that, just a walk.
ES: How did you get there?
GR: Just walked.
ES: Walked to the South Deeside ...?
GR: Tram, or I took a tram, if there was anywhere to take it to, and have a walk. And that was all we could do. I can't remember anything else we did.
AS: Did you have special friends amongst your fellow students?
GR: Well, I had one from Lossiemouth I was very friendly with. And I was friendly with one from Sapphock, in Oldmeldrum, Annie Anderson. And we used to sometimes hobnob a bit together.
AS: All the people you've mentioned, I think, came from outside Aberdeen. Did you find that the students from Aberdeen tended to stick together and the country ones together; or did they mix well?
GR: I didn't notice particularly. You see, it was always changing with it being the War. It was always changing.
ES: The members of the class were changing, or the staff?
GR: The classes were. You see, the boys were called up, and there would be fewer perhaps the next week, or something else.
AS: Were there any students there at the same time as yourself who went on to become quite eminent in their fields?
GR: No, I wouldn't ... Nellie Jardine married Taylor the Principal. She graduated with me, and then she came back to do her MD, or something, and she married Taylor. And she's still alive, and her partner lives here. And then there's another one. There's a famous doctors family in Aberdeen: Mitchell, in King Street. There were three sisters, were all doctors. Well, one of them is still alive, and she lives in St Andrews: Dorothy Younie.
AS: Yes, we have been given her name. She has actually done an interview for us.
GR: Oh, she has. You know Dorothy Younie, yes. Well, she was in my year. I think she started in the Spring, I started in October. They used to take people in in the Spring, you see, and we had our Summer classes together, but our Winter ones we didn't have together.
ES: How long was your course in those days, how many years?
GR: Five.
ES: Five years?
GR: Yes, it became six after a while. Yes, it was five in my time.
AS: And I noticed that you did one of your practical periods in Glasgow. How did that come about?
GR: Midwifery, because there weren't enough cases at the thing here, so we were in Rotten Row, Glasgow. And awful slums there were there.
AS: You found that a big contrast with Aberdeen.
GR: Well, I suppose it was, in a way. Yes, I did just a fortnight there. Some of them went to the Rotunda in Dublin. I couldn't afford that. So we went to Glasgow to Rotten Row Maternity Hospital. That was because there just weren't enough cases here.
AS: And you had to pay your own expenses?
GR: Oh yes, we did.
AS: How did you fund yourself through University?
GR: My parents just had to.
AS: Did you have any help at all?
GR: No. Oh well, yes. Carnegie gave me, … I think I got £20 for four years. I think I did. My last year I sat a bursary exam, and got it anyway. And that helped, because my sister was coming too, you see.
ES: The Carnegie grant was only for four years although your course was five?
GR: Yes, my course was five. And with my sister coming as well, it was a bit worrying, you know. But Ashley Mac, now, told my father about it, and he told him tell her to apply to "Monkey Pirie". Do you remember him? He was Dr Pirie, and he was like the picture of Monkey brand, so he was called "Monkey Pirie". And he had a ward. He had a ward in Woolmanhill. And I was told to apply, to give my name to him. And there were five of us went in for this, and I was fortunate in getting it. And that was a great help in the final year, you see.
ES: Yes.
AS: How many were in your own family, brothers and sisters?
GR: Five of us altogether.
AS: And did they all manage to get higher education?
GR: Oh no. Well my elder brother had done one year, and then he enlisted, and then he died of his wounds, his wounds. Then my sister followed me, but the next two brothers weren't at the University.
AS: Your parents did well to have two children through University.
GR: Oh yes, nearly three - the one year of my brother, yes.
AS: The War obviously affected things very much?
GR: Oh yes. We just had no social life. I mean, we just were students, and that was just about all, you know what I mean.
AS: Did you see big changes when the War finished, then? You were still at University after the end of the War?
GR: Well, of course, we were in different classes by that time. And of course, we were doing more hospital work by that time, by 1918. We were more often at the hospital. And I took Tropical Medicine, for some reason. I took that class. And we could take special classes, and that sort of thing.
AS: Yes, I noticed that you had chosen Tropical Medicine, and I wondered if you did that with any particular end in view?
GR: Yes, I did. Yes.
ES: Had you thought of going back to India?
GR: No, I hadn't. I hadn't thought about it, to tell the truth. You see, I got the chance.
[The tape was stopped at this point because of noise outside the room.]
AS: Yes, I asked whether you chose to do Tropical Medicine with a particular purpose in view?
GR: I thought I might go to India. You never know. So I just took it.
AS: And you did Dental Surgery, too. Did everyone do that?
GR: Oh, yes. I think we all did that. You know, we did things in the evening, too. We had VD was always in the evening.
AS: So you had long days, plus work in the wards?
GR: Yes, sometimes we had. We used to have Botany outings. That was the only decent thing about the Botany class, it was awfully boring. At eight o'clock in the morning Prof. Trail - he trailed all right.
AS: You did very well…
GR: I did very well, did I?
AS: You did very well in your studies. Did you get any prizes?
GR: I was first in one or two of them. I was in Clinical Medicine, I'm not sure. There were one or two them I got, you know, just a first prize, as it were.
AS: And medals?
GR: Well, that was what we got. But, as I say, we didn't get them because of the War. We did get the Matthews-Duncan gold medal.
AS: And do you still have it?
GR: No, it was stolen, along with other things that I had. What happened to it, I don't know. But it wasn't solid, you know. It wasn't solid.
ES: It wouldn't have been any use to anybody else, though.
GR: No, no. No use whatsoever.
AS: So you graduated in 1920. Did you have any particular career pattern or plan in mind?
GR: Well I was offered a - I don't know what you would call it - a lectureship or something in Physiology - that was a class I did well in. But I didn't want to do that. I wanted to be with people. I wasn't interested in academic things. And so I just applied to be a Resident, you see. In these days we had to apply to the advertisements in the BMJ, and I applied for Nottingham, because an uncle who was in Derbyshire said it was a nice hospital, and he knew the consultants. And that was the job I got without an interview because I had been trained by Ashley Mac.
ES: Was your uncle a doctor?
GR: Yes, yes. And I was his assistant for six years.
ES: Oh, after you had been in the hospital?
GR: After I graduated. He was needing an assistant, and so he took his own niece to be an assistant.
AS: In Nottingham Hospital?
GR: No, no. In Derbyshire, in a place called Melbourne, the original Melbourne. A country place.
AS: So you did a spell in Nottingham, and then you went to Derbyshire?
GR: Yes, I did my … being a Resident in Nottingham, first of all in the General, and then in the Children's Hospital. And then I wanted a job in general practice. And he was needing an assistant, so he took me.
ES: How long did you have to do as a Resident, after you finished training?
GR: Well, I did two years. Or did I do one? One year, I think, one or two. Just as some of them are doing. Some of them had been there a while, some of them had been there a shorter time; that was always changing, anyway.
AS: Did you enjoy those years in Derbyshire?
GR: Yes. Well, of course, it was like being home, almost, because I lived with my uncle, you see. Yes, Melbourne Hall was nice. And I had friends across the road I made. I made a lot of friends there, too. And they thought a woman doctor, and a girl at that, was just the limit, but, because they were so devoted to my uncle, they accepted me. And when he retired and I retired, they gave me a toilet silver set. And …
ES: The people did?
GR: An illustrated picture thing.
AS: So lady doctors were still quite rare in those days?
GR: Oh, yes, they were quite rare. That's 1922 it would have been, you see. We all got jobs, we girls in that year. One of them, Maud Mackintosh, that's the dentist Mackintosh, took TB, and she wasn't able to finish. And somebody else didn't finish. Somebody else came down, but finished later. We did not too badly, of course. Of course, we really had it over the men there, because they had been away. When they came back, they had a job, they had all to make up you know. They really had a thin time when they came back. They were all behind us.
ES: Did they come back to the same class, or did they fall back a year?
GR: Well, they sort of more or less fell back. When we had our fifty year reunion, we asked everybody who started in '15. That was the only way you could get the original - a lot of them never came back, you see.
AS: So you have kept in touch with some of your fellow students?
GR: No, I don't know any of the men; I don't think I know any of the men.
AS: Or do you know the careers of any of the people who went through with you?
GR: Nellie Taylor ... Nellie Jardine ... nearly all dead now.
AS: Do you know what they did, when you went to Nottingham?
GR: Well, some of them … one or two went into general practice straight away in Nottingham, I remember. I think most of us got hospital jobs, I think.
AS: And then you met your husband, and you were married?
GR: Ah, but that was a long time afterwards. When I finished with my House jobs - what did I do? - oh, yes, that was in Nottingham.
ES: Was it after Derby?
GR: I was just trying to think. No that wasn't, it became Derby. After I had been a Houseman in Nottingham, I was six years with an uncle, and he retired and came to live up here. Of course, he belonged here. He retired and lived up here. And I had to get a job. But before I got a job, I thought it was time I took a refresher course, and it was at the West Hammersmith Hospital in these days, and I took a course there. And my husband had just retired from the Indian Medical Service. And he was going to… He thought he would like to practice in his own country, before he was too old. He was fed up of the War, too, I think. And he was in the Indian Army in the War. He was with the Gurkhas most of the time. And he was on a hospital ship in the Dardanelles, a long time in the First War, yes. And he wanted a practice in this country. And he was refreshing his mind, too, yes.
AS: So you were fellow students?
GR: And he bought half a practice in Norfolk, after we got married, yes.
AS: He had a background in many ways similar to your own?
GR: Well, he was in India, of course. But, of course, he was in the Indian Medical Service, which was really the army, but they were allowed to do civilian work as well. And latterly he was mostly doing civilian work. And, of course, he was all the First War there, you see. He was on a ship in the Dardanelles for a long time. And then he was with the Gurkhas. He liked his Gurkhas. And then he got fed up with India and thought he would like to practice in his own country. So he retired.
AS: Was he the son of missionary parents, too? He was born in Hong Kong?
GR: No. His people were farmers in Wester Fintray, in Inverurie way.
AS: Am I wrong in thinking he was born in Hong Kong?
GR: He was born in Hong Kong. His father was a doctor in China, but not a missionary. He went out with Patrick Manson. That's why he was called Patrick Manson. They were the fathers were great friends, and he went out with my Manson's father, out to China, and, of course, he did a lot of work in China, as you know, ... And when my husband was due to be born, there was the risk of a Boxer Rebellion, so his mother was sent down to Hong Kong to Patrick Manson, and he brought him into the world, and then he was called after him.
AS: So, like yourself, he grew up wanting to be a doctor?
GR: Yes, yes, he did. He must have done, because most of them … there is still a nephew there a farmer.
AS: And was he able to tell you anything about Patrick Manson himself?
GR: Oh, yes. He was his godfather, you see. He spoke quite a lot about him. And, of course, had the books, the books of his life. Oh, he had a great admiration for Patrick Manson.
AS: Anything in particular that comes to mind?
GR: Oh, just what he discovered about … He persuaded the Prime Minister to pay for - what was the name of the man? - to go out to India and prove that the mosquito was the cause of malaria, of course…. But that's how he came to be born in Hong Kong: because his mother was sent down there to be safe, as it were.
AS: So you eventually settled in Norfolk. Were those happy years?
GR: Yes, but I only had barely five. So that was very nice, in Norfolk.
AS: And then did you continue there, on your own, for a time [After your husband died]?
GR: No, no, I didn't continue there. I didn't like the partner much. I didn't want to continue there. I went to Harpenden, in Hertfordshire, because my sister had married and was living in Harpenden. And one of the men there, who was an Australian, his wife came from Aberdeen, and she told my sister that her husband was wanting a partner, and thought they could do with a woman, because there was no woman in the district. And I became his partner, salaried partner, because I couldn't afford to buy the thing. And I was there till he retired, in ten years time. So I was ten years in Harpenden. And that's where I was during the Second World War.
AS: Now, you must have seen a lot of activity then?
GR: Oh, yes. There was an awful lot to do. He was called up. I was left alone for a while. I had an awful job, trying to cope with all the work, you know; until I got somebody who was starting Parkinson's Disease, and he was able to do quite a bit. He was able to do surgeries, and he was able to do odd … but he couldn't do night work. So I had a pretty thin time until my partner was… He was taken prisoner; he escaped and got home, with my brother-in-law, the general. And I was glad to see him back again. And Charlie Hill - you remember Charlie Hill? - well, he was a patient and he lived in Harpenden. He was awfully good to me: he got some help for me, because I was having far too much to do.
AS: Besides the ordinary GP work, did you have war casualties to cope with?
GR: Oh, yes. We had a first aid post, because we got all the London "dos", you know, and quite a few casualties. We were forced to keep the little hospital open. In fact, they opened it for us, because … so that we kept six beds for London casualties; but we never needed it.
AS: So you were much involved with the local hospital as well as your practice?
GR: Oh, yes, I was the first patient in it!
AS: What happened to you?
GR: I had a twisted fibroid. Yes, indeed. They flooded the theatre! They didn't know how the thing worked. That was a laugh, that was. Oh, yes, I had all my maternity cases, mostly, there. But we were supposed to… casualties would get priority, but we didn't need it. We had various hospitals during the War. We had Hillend. Hillend took a whole lot from London, Barth's, I think. A whole lot of the London hospitals had bits here and there, you know. In St Albans, and around. And we had the benefit of all the surgeons and everything. We did quite well during the War for consultant staff, because they lived out with us, a lot of them did. Yes, Hillend, became part of Barth's. It was a mental place. We had several mental places round about Harpenden. And I think they all became war places, pretty well. And first aid posts, of course, and all that sort of thing. And all these lectures! Oh, murder!
AS: Did you have to give lectures?
GR: Oh, an awful lot of lectures: St John's, and Red Cross - I was the Commandant Red Cross, yes. It was a busy time.
AS: Did you suffer any war damage? Was there bombing in your area?
GR: Well, there was some… We said, we should have written to them where to drop their bombs. But we/ there were one or two, accidentally, sort of, I think: they weren't meant to fall on us. We were an evacuation area, but I very nearly got caught. If I hadn't been called into a house, I think I would have got it. St George's School got one - that was the co-educational boarding school in Harpenden, yes, a very famous school.
AS: Were there casualties?
GR: Not many, but a few. We'd a lot, quite a lot of oddments due to the War, you know.
AS: So by the end of the War you must have been quite exhausted?
GR: Oh, I was awfully tired, sort of sick of the War, yes. But he was back, my partner; he escaped and got through Spain, and because he was a non-combatant he was allowed home. He was the senior officer that escaped with that lot, and he was - Charlie Hill, I think, wangled him out.
AS: So in 1948 you decided to move again?
GR: Well, my father had died, and I thought, well, I was told my mother was failing, and I thought I had better come up here and look after her. And Dr Mary Esslemont was on my mother's doorstep the next morning, saying "You're the very person I'm needing".
AS: Had you had contact with her before?
GR: Well, she was a lecturer in Botany when I was a student. I knew her quite well, yes. And I became their part-time worker. It was quite a big part-time, too, until I retired. I had had enough.
AS: How many were in the practice?
GR: There were four women at that time.
AS: Was Dr Mary Esslemont a fine person to work with? Of course, she had many other interests?
GR: She was always away, you see. That's why they were so thankful to get me, because she was forevermore going to meetings in Edinburgh and London and places. And, of course, I did her work, you see.
AS: Did she have lots of interesting things to share with you about her other work?
GR: Some things, yes, meetings and things. She was a great meeting person. I was quite busy there.
AS: And then you retired altogether?
GR: I was fed up. It was when I was sixty, "I'm retiring, I've had enough."
ES: Quite right.
AS: But so many people say that after retirement they're busier than ever. Did you find that?
GR: No, I didn't find I was busy. But I did travelling, and I did things that I had never been able to do before. I could drive until my sight gave out. My sight gave out and I had to stop driving. But I hope you are not putting in all these personal remarks of mine. People might sue you!
AS: Over the years since 1915 you must have seen tremendous changes in medicine?
GR: Oh, yes, I'm thankful I'm out of it! Thankful! I wouldn't like to be in it now at all.
AS: Why?
GR: Ach, I don't know. They seem to have an awful lot of writing work to do …
ES: A lot of records…?
GR: An awful lot of that sort of thing to do.
AS: But there have also been great advances in medicine?
GR: Oh advances in medicine itself!
AS: Can you mention any that you particularly notice?
GR: Well, there's all the transplants, of course, things like that, and by-passes and all that, an awful lot of changes, of course. And, of course, all the antibiotics and all that kind of thing. Yes, if there had been penicillin my husband could have survived a bit longer. There was no penicillin in 1934.
AS: So what was it that he took?
GR: It was actinomycosis. It was quite uncommon, really, but there it was. But there was no penicillin, no antibiotic.
AS: So that alone would have transformed the GP's work?
GR: Oh, yes.
AS: Well, we thank you very much for sharing all these memories with us.
GR: I hope it doesn't all go in!
[Conversation started up again, after the recorder had been switched off.]
GR: ... the University Women and the Medical Women's Federation.
AS: Yes, tell us about these …
GR: And, of course, I belong to the Deeside Field Club and the local National Trust, as well as the general. They were my great pleasure, you know, the Deeside Field, and I was awfully sorry having to give all that up, but then I wasn't able for it, you see. I got an awfully nice letter from the local National Trust. He said, when you're old, I think, you deserve respect and a lot of friends, and I hope that's your lot. I thought that was nice of him - a very nice letter. So I missed all that. That was my pleasure here, going. I had to stop driving in the early 70s because of my sight.
ES: You were at the Theatre not long ago, weren't you?
GR: Yes, I was at the Theatre to the Merry Widow. Of course, we go as near as possible, and I couldn't see their faces, but it didn't matter about faces. I could see them and I could hear the music. I'm going to the ballet, on the 25th; I've got my ticket, £12!, so it should be a good seat. So Matron was telling me. She always puts me down for the Ballet. And I had a very nice walk yesterday all round the place. I don't know this district at all. But two of us in wheel chairs were taken a walk round. And then last week I had a very nice walk in the Winter Gardens in the Duthie Park, in my wheelchair. You see since I had to go into hospital before Christmas and since I came home I've been in a wheelchair the whole time and I can't walk without help. I'm just down at once. But I quite enjoy my wheelchair now, because I can be taken out.
AS: You did keep in touch with the Medical Associations?
GR: Well not much, because I couldn't go to them.
AS: And the British Federation of University Women, you mentioned. Were you active with them for many years? Did you attend meetings with them for many years?
GR: I was a member here that I met. No, I couldn't go to any of their meetings. The same with the Medical-Chirurgical. Well, I'm a life member there, but I can't go to them now.
AS: But you did used to go? That's what I'm interested in.
GR: Oh, yes, I went to all these meetings: University Women, and Medical Women, and the Medical-Chirurgical; I went to them all.
End of interview
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