| Description | Interview with the Reverend Stephen Goodbrand, recorded on the 7 September 1990 by Colin McLaren.
Transcript of interview:
McL Can I begin by asking why you came to Aberdeen University?
SG I was born in Aberdeen, as I always say by mistake, because my parents had a house in Aberdeen and a house in Deeside, my mother happened to be in Aberdeen … so they opened up 8 Devannah Gardens West, from memory, and I was born there. So I'm a true Aberdonian and like Saul of Tarsus I'm very proud of my city. Like my father before me of course, I went to Aberdeen Grammar School. Like many relations. And, of course, being an Aberdonian going back generations it was quite natural that … I began in medicine but got out was in the ranks of course, commissioned in the Gordons but served with the Indian army. Whilst I was in the medical faculty during the beginning of war there was a lots Englishman and Welshman and Irishman were Royal Artillery Gunner Cadets. And the interesting thing was when I came back to enter the ministry this time after being a military officer and staff officer with the Indian Army a great number of those cadets English cadets came back to Aberdeen. Which was great, it really it meant a lot to them it meant a lot to us. And they were great boys in the Athletic Association this sort of thing. I got interested in the SRC and so on and so forth, I finished up as the President of the SRC. In Arts, I have to tell you really … I took a Wartime degree - two years instead of three. Donald MacKinnon Professor of Moral Philosophy was a well known character, Dr Bednarowski - Alistair told me this afternoon he is still alive.
McL Alive and well, yes.
SG Dr Bednarowski was a Pole who was parachuted into Poland twice during the War - the Communists would have chopped him if he'd gone back. He was a lecturer in Logic and I can remember him very well indeed, he was a very good lecturer, and I can also remember him one day saying, "Have you ever seen an angel" and then he looked out of the window and into the quadrangle for five, four, five minutes - it was a long time - and he turned round said "yes, have you ever seen an angel?" and continued with his lecture. I've never forgotten that. And the other one was Fraser Noble whom I knew slightly as a staff officer on the frontier. I'll tell you about the Khyber Pass, everyone laughs when I mention the Khyber Pass but from their I became a Staff Officer and Fraser Noble was a pretty senior Indian Civil Servant and I had to go to [?] every ten days or thereby, I can't really into this type of thing really, and so I knew Fraser and when I came back Hamilton of Economics who was a friend of my father's through the Rotary, came in and suddenly saw me and said "what are you doing here?" and I … and then he said "my new lecturer, Fraser Noble is just coming in" and of course he came in and saw me…! But when I took my degree in Economics - you know professional what ever you call it - Fraser actually sat in the Mitchell Hall on these desks - maybe you don't have them now - and I'd a bottle of sweets and he went round the room twice in three hours, there were other invigilators of course, and he ate all my sweets and he looked at me and everything I wrote and he said "now you must take Honours in Economics" and I said "No." It was the same with History and it was the same with Philosophy. "No, no I must get into Divinity." I though now "two more years and I'll probably not go into Divinity" that's just the way things worked out. So I've very happy memories of Fraser Noble. And still happy memories of these ex- Gunner Cadets who came back to Aberdeen. And many of them might well have gone on to Cambridge or Oxford or other English universities, which I thought said a lot for Aberdeen in those days.
McL Did you find that you got on as well with the students who had come straight from school or was there an age gap between the people who had served during the War and those who were just new entrants from sixth forms?
SG Well, being an Aberdonian by birth with a long family history a lot of these younger boys and girls belonged to families - I'm speaking about Aberdeen and Donside, Deeside - they knew my family it was rather different. I met a girl tonight, I don't know her name, but she thanked me for being so kind to her, looking after her when she was a young student, I can't even remember her name. So I don't think there was - certainly not a serious distinction or differentiation between the ex-servicemen. It was perhaps more noticeable when I entered Divinity because most of my year except for four highlanders, well, we thought they were ancient, they were probably nearer forty, but were allowed to getting thirty three and a third per cent in their exams but were confined to going back to Gaelic-speaking charges for five years and the rest of us, except for one, were all ex-servicemen. Alan Robertson for example was with me. We were a very small Faculty in Divinity. Professor G. D. Henderson, well certainly I think in the twentieth century there are two great church historians, G.D. Henderson Eighteenth century Scotland - superb - and Principal John Burley of New College Edinburgh whom I knew quite well, his daughter was at school with my wife. But G.D. Henderson was the most excellent master. He was a little man, smaller than I am, used to stand on tiptoe and say "Very important point, Gentlemen." And they used to produce ash-trays in Divinity for our exams. Very, very happy faculty, I must say. Very broad-minded and G.D. Henderson was the most excellent master.
McL Would you say it was a politically conscious faculty? Given that you were on the verge of a welfare state, of a new social order. Was this reflected in the attitudes which obtained?
SG I and Alan Robertson founded or re-founded, I don't know what the expression is - what was known as the Union[ist?] Society which had fallen in abeyance. Alan Robertson became the first president or chairman and I became the secretary of it, but we had what were called in those days a number of Socialists, but there was never any animosity, we'd Communists on the SRC. Some of my back-benchers in the SRC were real, real troublemakers but they were out-numbered of course in those days, mainly by ex-service people. Yes, there were differences of opinion, but it never really affected our social life, I must confess that. Thank goodness. I don't there was the same animosity in the political field perhaps, even amongst the Communists, many of whom I knew very well indeed and could have a drink with them, you know, this sort of thing, as there might be today. I don't know what the set up is at university nowadays of course, but our younger daughter came to Aberdeen and read Law and our son took an Honours degree in Mechanical Engineering and I think probably one of the proudest days of my life was when our son graduated from the Mitchell Hall, and Edward, by this time had muscular dystrophy he'd to be helped onto the platform to graduate and you know what the Quad's like at Marischal College … (I'd better watch my language on this machine!) and I thought, "how am I going to find my son?" Well there he was with Fraser Noble, Principal, Alan Robertson, who was in charge of the Halls of Residence, Alan Main, Chaplain to the University (whom I didn't really know), Iain Cuthbertson, who was Rector and of course who was at university, my wife was very friendly with his sister, and Sandy Gall of course, was like a little brother to me. He'd been a little boy at prep school aged 6 when my brother who is younger than I am - […] killed about three weeks before the Jap War ended having gone through so much. And I still see Sandy Gall twice a year as my guest at our regimental do in London, and his wife … I'm sorry, we've got off the track somehow.
McL You were talking about seeing your son at his graduation flanked by …
SG Oh yes. And Fraser Noble: "there's Steve!" Do you know I felt so humbled and proud over that. It was good. I've always remembered that. And then I rather lost touch with Aberdeen, no children here. But I had relations and both sides of my family who became doctors. A brother of my mothers, and an older cousin of my fathers going further back were graduates of Aberdeen. And where else would I go? Just as simple as that really. I did think at one point - I maybe shouldn't say this - I did think of going to St Andrews for a BD but pressure was brought to bear on me by local church authorities and by Christ's College of course and so I decided to stay on. Of which I've no regrets.
McL Apart from the SRC were there any other organisations that you were involved in?
SG The Historical Society. I was Business Manager of Publications and then I was Director of Publications then President of the SRC.
McL As Director of Publications what were your relationships like with the editor of Gaudie ?
SG Very good. In those days
McL Why do you qualify it?
SG After I left there was some trouble. And I don't remember what that was all about. Oh no, there was no trouble with editors of Gaudie in my time. And Colin Maclean was a most active and helpful supporter - and others - they were very good. There's another chap who's name I can't remember unfortunately. He was editor for a while. Some people didn't get on with him, but I always got on with him, tried to keep the cool when there was sometimes a bit of friction.
McL How would you characterise the role of the SRC in the University at that time?
SG Well I suppose at the time some of them thought they were the cat's whiskers I've no doubt. It was interesting, as I say there were a lot of Communists. The National Union of Students were fairly active in those days …
McL To what extent was it considered a training ground for future involvement either in public affairs or the [forensic?] professions, for example?
SG I think one or two of them certainly hoped to make something out of it, perhaps in the political sphere, I would imagine or perhaps the media. But Jimmy Edwards was elected Rector when I was President, I didn't vote for him, I voted for Lord Lovat, but it's an act of Parliament in Scotland and the Principal in those days was - I may as well call him what he was called - Sir Thomas Titmouse Taylor. And he wasn't going to have an inaugural address and the Court and Senatus were you know - there was great trouble there. So we had a lot of secret meetings and Professor Reg [RV] Jones - I married in my second year. I picked my wife up at a hop in the Elphinstone Hall and I may as well say I was a confirmed bachelor in those days, but within thirteen days we were engaged and married - after these secret SRC meetings, Reg Jones would be in my flat to hear it all. Ever Divinity professor, lecturer, they were all behind us. Colonel Butchart - you won't remember Butchart …
McL No, but I know of him
SG Colonel Butchart DSO, he was a traditionalist. Everyone was scared of Butchart, everyone, including the Principal. Butchart, as I say, was a traditionalist and knew this Act of Parliament. And what happened? Well the SRC said, "right, well we'll have our own inaugural, get Jimmy Edwards up." I met him off the train, took him to the Town House, the Lord Provost met him, you know all that sort of stuff, and I had to seek permission from the theatre and the Royal Engineers drill hall and we were going to have our own inaugural do. Thomas Titmouse Taylor who was a very good churchman as you'll probably remember or know of, got me into his room, and he completely lost the head and I was sitting in a large, deep leather chair and the secretary outside must have heard every word and he absolutely lost his head and I was sitting there praying, absolutely praying that he would hit me. That is a fact. And he was going to have me sent down, out of the University because of this. So Butchart - I think Alistair Smith knows this - and dear, it's my memory again of course, he was a lecturer in mathematics, I told him after too - Butchart got me up into his office and said "Well, Goodbrand, how are things going?" I'd tell him, and he said "well now I've finished the Senatus Minutes, finished all the Court Minutes. Goodbrand there's something very interesting out of the window" So Goodbrand being a good ex-Staff Officer knew what to do: read what was going on. "Well, Goodbrand that's been most interesting. You'll have to leave now Goodbrand, I'm very busy" So the inaugural, the whole thing went through in the long run. I became very friendly with Jimmy Edwards who had a very distinguished war career and had a Cambridge BA of course, and his father was a professor. The whole thing, I thought, was quite disgusting. I didn't vote for him of course, but that was how Rectors are elected. So these are my recollections of my Presidential days and the Principal threatening to have me sent down. The Divinity profs and a good number of others and Reg Jones was a great help and some students were going to go too far - I can't mention names here because some of them are quite prominent people, not Sandy Gall by the way, he was a very quiet student and took very little part in student affairs - but some were going to go over the top in very crude ways, almost bestial and dangerous ways. And Reg Jones, Prof. Jones I told him and he could speak to them and say "cool it chaps" and they'd listen to him. So I was grateful for that, I didn't want … that's all over Jimmy Edwards. But certainly the Gunner Cadets who came back, I thought that was absolutely wonderful, did a lot for Aberdeen and the Divinity Faculty under G.D. Henderson who was Master of Christ's College - absolutely wonderful. And we were the only Divinity Faculty in Scotland, not to have a tie of our own, but when I was President of the Divinity Student's Council the same year as I was SRC, we had a very artistic student called [Edward Cant?] and we designed the tie I'm wearing tonight. So that's how Christ's College got its tie.
McL One last question, if I may, and this worries me and puzzles me slightly. Nowadays as you are probably aware, student officials often get a sabbatical in which to carry out their student duties …
SG And money, I believe
McL And yet, you were combining these roles as SRC President and Divinity Faculty …
SG That's right, and I was newly married too - and had our first child!
McL How did you do it all!?
SG Well, I was slightly older remember, it was after the war, and I had had service and was slightly older and I've no doubt my staff training helped, me no doubt of that. The Divinity Faculty profs were very supportive I must say that, and Reg Jones, who has never been honoured by the University, which I deplore, […] various reasons, but there we are. They were all very helpful under very difficult and trying circumstances. No, we were older you see …
McL Was there less bureaucracy do you think in Council affairs as well
SG Oh, I think so, yes. It's very different nowadays, they have their own SRC offices and staff and all sorts of things - sabbaticals as you mentioned. And they get a grant or something. All very different, of course, from my day. The numbers - you see there were only about two thousand students in my day. I don't say we knew everyone, but we knew most people by sight. It was a very happy … whereas now it's like every other university and college in the UK, it's quite different. But my best man is here tonight we were Cadets together and he joined the Gurkhas and he's at Keys College Cambridge reputed for many years to be the only Conservative Economist at Cambridge and he's here tonight, I introduced he and his wife, first term back. John Reid is here tonight, he's an ex-Gunner Cadet. He was very active. I'm sorry, I'm keeping you talking …
McL Not at all. If we could just bring things to an end though. It's been very helpful indeed hearing your views and I hope you enjoy the rest of the evening …
SG Yes, what I think I'll probably do is go and have a drink and say goodbye to my friends and get back to the club and have an early night.
McL Thank you very much.
END OF INTERVIEW
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