| Administrative History | Anna L. Dodds was a former Aberdeen University student |
| Description | Interview with Mrs Anna L. Dodds, recorded on the 5 September 1986 by Jennifer Carter
Transcription:
C What did you study then Mrs Dodds.
D Well of course the general course for an MA covered so many things that were compulsory then. You had Latin or Greek, had to take Maths and Nat Phil which was a terrible thing for most people. You had to take English and another foreign language. You had to take Logic or Moral Philosophy. You had to take Geology, Zoology or Botany and up to nine other subjects.
C And that gave you your MA Ordinary?
D Yes. Of course I was lucky because I wasn't too bad at Nat Phil but it was a terrible bête noir for a lot of people who just simply couldn't do Maths. Well I had done all of these things in two years so I started doing Law actually and when there didn't seem much opening for law, and as I say I went on and found out about being a housing manager and went down to Bootle, which was a terrible place, and took my chartered surveyors exams and worked there for a couple of years and then met another Aberdeen graduate, got married, worked for a couple of years after I was married, had a family and that was it.
C Coming way back to the beginning again then, you were born in Dyce, is that right?
D Yes.
C Did you attend university from there?
D Yes. I travelled in and out every day. I used to get off the train at Kittybrewster and walked down here and would go to Schoolhill and walk down Schoolhill. I had various friends that I could stop overnight with if need be. I didn't find it was a disadvantage living at home really.
C Was it a natural choice for your family to send you to university or was it surprising as it were.
D I think so. Neither of my parents had been but my mother's family were all academic sort of people. Being at the High School you were kind of expected to do something with your life or go somewhere. Of course that was a great advantage having been at the High School as you came up with a whole lot of ready made people that you knew further up the scale and so on …
C So it was a fairly academic schooling you had and it was in a sense a normal progression to come up to university.
D Yes. Most people did something, either university or TC or nursing or art school or my best friend did Dunfermline [physical education] so if you got as far as the sixth form you were expected to go on.
C What about the financial side, was that a consideration at all or were your parents reasonably well off?
D My parents were reasonably well off, well not well off, but of course it didn't cost hardly anything in these days, living at home was reasonably cheap and I think it was something like £15 a year or something like that for academic fees and 2 guineas to try an exam, it was really comparatively cheap.
C What about your own spending money. Did your parents as it were give you pocket money?
D Yes. Half a crown a week. One lasted on that. We were just saying you could get a cup of coffee and a chocolate biscuit for tuppence.
C What would have been your normal pattern of day? You would have left home from Dyce and come into Kittybrewster. Spent the whole day here?
D As I say everybody had to take Latin and this conjoined Maths and Nat Phil and I thought I'd better start and get that out of the way first. So I think Maths was 9 o'clock in the morning, Latin was 11, I think, and then Physics was in the afternoon, Natural Philosophy as we called it then. Sometimes I went home, sometimes I had a snack. We had a vague women's room, you couldn't call it a women's union, both here on the corner of King's and also on the same approximate place at Marischal where you could get a date scone sort of thing. I think that cost a halfpenny, a date scone. Of course I had a season ticket on the train so quite often I went home had a meal and then came back. We were quite often down at the library … preparation but of course what I learned in the classrooms was the smallest part. I got on the SRC the first year and stayed on there for three years and then in the last year I was also secretary of the Union which I think the experience being there did far more than anything else for my subsequent career.
C So in the non-party sense you were a fairly political student involved in student affairs?
D Except that politics as such didn't come into our lives at all. I did belong to the League of Nations but only very vaguely and we weren't very passionate about anything. I don't think they had any political … the rectorials and things weren't fought on a political thing, except for Walter Elliott and I think that was the first time any politics had ever come in. Actually I didn't support him, I supported Aldous Huxley and our party won the peasemeal fight but of course that didn't mean anything. But it was rather stupid the sort of people that people chose for rectors in these days because it was only a name, they didn't actually do anything for the students at all, whereas later ones were much better.
C Those were two very serious names though, Walter Elliott in those days was quite an up and coming politician.
D Yes, and G K Chesterton was another.
C Did most women students involve themselves as much in student affairs as you obviously did in the SRC, the Union, the rectorials etc.
D Looking back, they say nowadays how women don't take part the same as men but in physics for example, one of my best friends that should have been here tonight but she's ill, she got first class honours Maths/Nat Phil. You felt you had to do better than the boys but everybody had to do that and do a subject and I think the girls did as well as the boys then so all this business about girls not being taught physics and things I don't think it applied to all.
C What about the kind of extra curricula things like you describe, the Union and so on, was that more unusual for girls to throw themselves so much into that?
D Well it wasn't compulsory to join the Union of course in those days, it was only something like 10 shillings or something but a lot of people didn't, local people didn't bother, but once you got into the swing of doing this … If you were in the SRC you went to SRC conferences at St Andrews, Glasgow or Edinburgh and you went to their jollifications with rectorials. I remember a wonderful one at St Andrews when General Smuts was their rector. In fact I remember somebody saying we were living at a rate we would never be able to equal for years. We didn't know the meaning of drink really, unless we went to one of these dos and perhaps you had a sherry or something but otherwise it was very - well people just hadn't the money to.
C It was all cups of tea was it?
D Cups of tea, cups of coffee, which were largely the same.
C Did undergraduates smoke in those days?
D Not a great deal again largely for financial reasons. Some people did, none of our lot did. We were a bunch of people who called ourselves the Gybers I must say other people must have found us a thoroughly objectionable lot because we covered various years and faculties and we took it upon ourselves to liven up the university. There was a lot of apathy about as there always was so we got ourselves put on to the committees of almost every society …
C Sounds like a splendid conspiracy, yes.
D It was good fun actually. Men and women got out of about, there must have been about 24 of us, I don't know what happened after I went, whether it carried on, but two couples finally got married but the rest of us are still friends and one or two of them are here tonight.
C You were involved in the setting up of this group?
D Well it was sort of there before I came up. That was the great thing because I came from the High School and the ones that had gone before they were already doing this little thing. We weren't a recognised society we just met. In fact we used to go into the library and there was a day book and you had to sign your name first time you went in and there was the Auld Toon Café down the road and also Moroccos so you wrote either AT or M as to where you were going after you'd spent your statutory ten minutes in the library.
C Sounds a lot of fun actually.
D Yes. A very good thing we did set up was a university's camp at Carrbridge.
C For deprived children?
D No, for ourselves. Students at the four universities but of course the war came after a couple of years and that was it …[Next few words inaudible]
C What about dances and theatres and things like that?
D Yes. Every week there was a hop on at the men's union or the women's union.
C The two were separate were they?
D Yes. The women's union used to be in Skene Terrace. Until my last year when there was a great panic because the lease was up and they couldn't find anywhere to go so I learned how to spell accommodation because I was the secretary and kept writing to everyone. But usually one went say to the Literary Society and then the Debater and then you went on to a hop after that in the men's union which was rather unpleasant because they had pillars and you got pushed about a bit. But the Debater was a great thing on a Friday night.
C And it was very much a student life, I mean existing in your own student world with your student friends?
D Yes. A lot of us wore togas. We were sort of a revival who wore gowns or togas. I enjoyed it greatly, was sorry to leave but then time goes on.
C Was it still true in your day that King's and Marischal were very separate, for example one of my earlier people told me that the Marischal students never wore togas?
D You see you did things in both, Maths was at King's but Nat Phil was at Marischal.
C So the divide was much less in your day?
D It wasn't bad at all. In fact I had a job because I demonstrated in Geology at Marischal 9 to 10 this was the summer term once because I had done rather well in Geology and I had a Logic class at 10 o'clock at King's which was a bit difficult.
C So how did you manage?
D Just ran quickly and never got the first few lines of Logic. I have always had a great affection for the university, my two sons are both graduates and my husband was a graduate.
C Attending so many different classes as you did, do you retain much memory of the people who taught you?
D Yes they were giants in those days. Prof Jack in English, I don't think anybody could ever forget him, and Prof Ferguson in Logic was very good. Professor Gray in Economics he was excellent. Professor Carroll I haven't quite got the same happy memories of. He had a problem with Physics and he was very young when he was appointed, of course you know how students take the mickey out of the young and somebody got marbles you know high tier …
C And dropped them down?
D Very irritating but of course anybody with any experience would have said "Oh put your toys away" or "Can't you play outside?" or something but he got so cross he closed the class and he said he wasn't giving any more lectures. So people in the SRC had to go and plead with him and we were sort of bound to keep the peace. Of course we still did silly pranks like tying pieces of string to the lights and waving them about but nothing vicious or really violent at all. I never remembered anything like that happening.
C Was there a rag week, a charities week in your day?
D Yes. I was on the outlying districts committee and was a convenor the last year and every little village all round … in fact we did not impinge on what came up from St Andrews, I think Brechin was the sort of dividing line. But we had three concert parties going round for a fortnight and you appointed a local convenor somewhat unwillingly in every village to arrange accommodation. In fact I've just been speaking to an old friend who got married as a result of being billeted on the minister and she finally married him. But of course we used to make £5,000 if we were fortunate.
C That was a lot of money in those days, wasn't it?
D It was all very tricky and I can remember that we had a drum that fell off a lorry and it cost £5 and this was really ruin staring us in the face. We had to do without our coffee and chocolate biscuits for quite a while because we felt personally responsible for this happening. Then of course there was Alma Mater which was a rather higher class paper which was published weekly, but then the last year Gaudie came in which was more a newspaper sort of thing.
C Were you involved with either of those?
D Vaguely. I used to trot up and down to Lindsey's the publishers with bits of things and advertisements and things but not really in the role of editors and so on. It was a very busy life.
C What did you do in vacation if you were so wrapped up with the university during term-time?
D Well, even then I worked in the library for a couple of vacations with Douglas Simpson. And I was a great Girl Guide so I used to take my Girl Guides to camp and one year four of us walked to Skye and back.
C Goodness that was a feat, yes.
D Then I went as an au pair to France for a summer. I wasn't doing languages but I just thought it would be nice to do. I actually made contact with the people again last year so I went to France with my son and found the people.
C Sounds as if you had a thoroughly enjoyable time as a student.
D Yes. Well you did a bit of work but not too much. As I say we had somebody a bit older that knew the ropes they could tell you 'spotters', and you learned those things up, and you knew this was going to be in one alright.
C Do you think yours was a typical experience or were you and your friends the Gybers a rather unusual group?
D We were a bit unusual. There were lots of people that just went to classes and went home again and never came to a dance or joined a society or anything but they got their degree and I suppose they got a job but I'm sure they would have been far better people if they'd done a bit more. Didn't do much in the sports mind, as I say I had my Girl Guides on a Saturday afternoon and that and a bit of hill walking etc. I used to fence a bit. I went to the gym. Quite a bit with Captain Brocks and Mrs - I have forgotten the name.
C So the Physical Education department had already begun in your time?
D Yes.
C Was it popular?
D Yes. I used to go down to the gym quite a bit and of course other people played on teams and we used to go and cheer for them but of course at that time all the universities were small enough you got to know almost everybody that mattered and we had a great affinity with St Andrews. We were always going up and down and we ran a summer trip once with some Dutch students along with St Andrews and funnily enough the girls that went all seemed to be from Aberdeen and the boys from St Andrews. I still keep up with some of those after all these years. We pop down to see College Pudding in Glasgow or went to a conference in Edinburgh and you met the same people all the time so you got pretty friendly with them.
C As such an active student did you have much contact with the university authorities? You spoke of how you would go and plead with this professor, did you have other contacts?
D Yes. Lady Adam Smith she was president of the ladies union so we got to see her occasionally and Birnie Reid was the official treasurer I think and was always asking if we could do this or that and of course we had a great bazaar in the Music Hall: I'll show you the programme.
C To raise money for charities?
D No, for the Union, for ourselves. Not that we were ever in it of course because we had gone before this happened but it was quite funny. I know my son, when he was treasurer of the Union later they found the old minute book they said you always seemed to complaining about a puddle in front of the women's union. Then my younger son he was the chairman of charities campaign so they sort of followed on what I had been doing.
C What about Principal Adam Smith, did you meet him?
D Yes and he knew every student by name. Wore a top hat. Well, I don't know if he always knew me but I think he knew all the people that passed through his hands.
C Were you ever entertained in their home or the homes of any of the other staff?
D Yes. The SRC used to go for an annual garden party and that was very nice. I think Prof Jack had people in, but mostly that was honours students that they were more interested in.
C You said you yourself did a little bit of law at one stage, is that right?
D Yes, and I would have stayed on but there didn't seem to be a great deal of future at that time because it was very awkward because you had to do your law classes early in the morning and you were meant to be in an office all day and then do another class say from 5 to 6 at night. But half the men couldn't get into offices so I decided to - I might have persevered if I hadn't seen this housing manager thing but there was quite a bit of law attached to that too so that was quite interesting. I'm sorry I didn't finish it because I had only about two subjects to take.
C And had an LLB to your name.
D Yes. My daughter-in-law is a lawyer.
C What were employment prospects like for women, you graduated in 34, it was difficult was it?
D Poor: it was no use at all wanting to be a teacher. Even people with first class honours had to go, well few got jobs locally but lots of them, my friend Agnes, she had to go down and teach in a private school in Swanage. A lot of them had to go out of Scotland as I had to do of course to find a job as I did. Well not as bad - it was more desperate because there was nothing to fall back on. If you didn't have a job it was a poor do.
C Was there a careers service to help you find jobs?
D Very vague. They'd never heard of being a housing manager and didn't think it was a very good thing to do. No, I think teaching was the only thing they sort of thought you ought to go Training Centre but then what was the use of that if there was no job at the end of it.
C Was it as tough for men as for women or was it less tough for men graduates?
D I don't know really. My husband had to leave: I think he had applied for about ten places before he got an apprenticeship at Metro-Dixon in Manchester. He'd done an MA, BSc and then a BSc Engineering so he was very well qualified and it was difficult to get in.
C Presumably it was a bit easier for men to get into teaching since most of the posts went to men?
D Yes, but on the other hand in primary schools there weren't many men, not graduates anyway.
C No, that's true. So it was just a pretty hard world all round you reckon?
D It was really and there was I think a vague fear that something awful might happen you know, not exactly but there were war clouds sort of. We didn't pay a great deal of attention I must say. We ought to have done but I don't know it didn't seem to be too near us but there was just a vague little feeling in the background.
C You weren't conscious of the rise of fascism?
D I think we were all a bit cross about Mussolini going into Abysinnia, that was then.
C Thereabouts I think, yes.
D I think our faith in the League of Nations was a bit bashed.
C The Spanish Civil War hadn't yet happened?
D No, it hadn't happened.
C Had you heard of Hitler as an undergraduate?
D Yes, because at school we had an exchange system with Dresden School. Rather stupid because all the people learning German went there and the Germans came back at the same time so none of the German speaking people were there to greet them I think we were rather impressed with them because they all had sabre cuts on their faces, the boys.
C School boys?
D Well sort of seventeen/eighteen year olds, and they wore rather nice caps and things and we thought they were rather exciting. I can't remember when Hitler was really spoken about. As I say it didn't seem to touch us too much. It wasn't until I went to work in Bootle that I got sort of politically conscious that the world wasn't very well divided.
C Yes, domestic politics didn't really impinge any more than international politics in your student life?
D No. We were once turned off the grounds of the conservative MP.
C No, do let's here about this. What, you were trespassing were you?
D Well we were camping and we had asked if we could, and they came along and said that we wouldn't.
C This was you and the Girl Guides was it?
D Well we were in the Guides, it was four of the older ones who went off walking up to Braemar.
C Who was the MP is those days?
D Barclay Harvey. He was a very autocratic sort of man. But we used to go up a lot climbing in the Cairngorms, not the Alpine Club or the Cairngorm Club or anything but just on private rambles. I was lucky enough to have a car, at least it wasn't mine it was the family's but they let me borrow it. My family always said, who's passed their test because mother never had to take a test. I did I drove an ambulance during the war.
C What did you wear for these walking expeditions? Was it OK for girls to wear trousers then?
D Yes. Well we didn't wear trousers, we wore kilts and khaki shirts. In fact that was our official guide camp uniform because you couldn't be a guide captain until you were 21 and of course I left as soon as I was 21 but we ignored this and used to take all these kids to camp. How their mothers let their kids of sixteen take them off to camp I don't know but they did and nothing awful every happened, touching wood. We were terribly strict with them, we wore kilts and khaki shirts and we didn't wear boots much, only strong shoes. We used to do things that now we wouldn't dream of doing, climbing … There weren't any mountaineering classes or anything you just had to learn as you went along.
C So you never lost any of them, that was good?
D No. I was the oldest of a family of seven.
C Did the others follow you to university?
D My brother did medicine, and my next sister did genetics, and the next sister was a nurse, the next one did domestic science and of course the war had happened by next time and one or two of them were in the WRENS and the ATS during the war, and then the next sister did kindergarten teaching and the youngest one was a hospital almoner. She went to Edinburgh University, said she was fed up being the youngest and wanted to strike out on her own. I got married at King's College Chapel, so did my two boys. My daughter is married to a lecturer at Liverpool. She got married at 19 much to my annoyance, because she wanted to be an architect and was going to come up here and do it but she met this lad who'd graduated and architecture was six years so that was no go.
C You say you were married at King's, did you used to go as an undergraduate to the Chapel?
D Yes.
C Although you lived out of town?
D Yes. Not always but we went and they used to have a service every morning, a quarter to nine - not again every day, it was very brief we sang one hymn and a little prayer which I used to quite enjoy. Of course the SRC, I remember a very embarrassing thing my first year you wore your trencher to take up the collection, and we were all sitting at the front and of course I bowed my head in prayer and my trencher fell onto the floor with a clatter. But it was very nice to see these lads in togas.
C I'm afraid it's an unusual sight nowadays.
D Yes. But I think when Fergus my youngest boy was at Johnston Hall I think they had to wear a toga on a Friday night.
C Oh Fergie Dodds?
D Yes, do you know him?
C Very well, very tall lad.
D Yes, that's him.
C Oh super chap, I remember him extremely well, so that's a link. And he married that very nice girl Jean Innes who works in the Central Library.
D Well she doesn't now because he has a printing business.
C Yes, Rainbow Printers or something.
D Yes. Well just this last year Jean has given up being the librarian and has gone to help him because they have moved out to Dyce.
C Doing well I hope, are they?
D Very well. In fact I think they're off on holiday this week but can hardly every be persuaded to, they haven't time to do anything.
C Well please remember me to them. I remember both of them extremely well.
D And your name is?
C Jennifer Carter.
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