| Description | Interview with Struan Wilkie (MB ChB 2003) recorded on 7th July 2003 by Jennifer Carter
Transcription:
JC So Struan you told me you had a kind of life-time ambition to be a medic, which you have now realised, as you graduated this week.
SW Yes that is right.
JC Family connections?
SW Yes, there is. There is quite a long family history in medicine. My father is a General Practitioner, so that is where the main thrust came from. My mother is a Radiographer, but obviously when she had a family she put that on the back burner and concentrated on family life. I also have aunts who are nursing and a cousin who is a nurse as well and second cousins who are in nursing. So there is a lot of medicine in the family.
JC Did the family encourage you or did they say "gosh we are all coming to hate the Health Service and general practice is hell" and things like this?
SW Well I wouldn't say that my dad tried to sway me from going into medicine but he didn't push me. It was entirely up to myself. My dad would have been happy in whatever I was doing. But the experience of obviously being in a medical family, seeing my dad's day to day life, seeing what he was doing, it only encouraged me more to get into medicine.
JC And will you long term be a GP yourself you think? Or will you go off in some other direction?
SW No I don't think so. I think General Practice has changed a lot over the years. It is certainly, I think it is getting better. My father up until recently has always been single handed, although he would have a reciprocal relationship with another GP who would cover for him from time to time. So he would get a day off during a week, but generally it was a case of a 7 day week, all year long, 24 hours a day. You know, quite hard work, but nowadays you see all the co-operatives forming. On call is not such a big thing nowadays. But for me I would like to stay in hospital medicine. Possibly in the surgical line into Radiology, that is what I would like to do. So there is a link up with my mother and her Radiography.
JC So this life-time ambition on your part must have meant even at school you were studying pretty hard to get the good grades?
SW I would say that I did well enough at school. If we go right back to the beginning, I was at a rural primary school.
JC Whereabouts was that?
SW A place called Rashfield, it was Rashfield Primary School. Unfortunately it doesn't exist anymore.
JC Where is it near that I might know?
SW It is near Dunoon.
JC Near Dunoon, right.
SW As I say it is not there anymore, you know, council restructuring and cut-backs…
JC The usual story!
SW Always the same. They ended up closing it.
JC So where was secondary?
SW Secondary for me was Dunoon, Dunoon Grammar School, which you might have.. the late John Smith went there, George Robertson, Sylvester McCoy, so some famous …
JC So quite a distinguished school.
SW Yes. So I went there, that was from 1987/1988 up until 1993/4 which was my sixth year. I did 6 years at Dunoon.
JC And you hoped to go straight into medicine but in the event you took a Science degree first?
SW At that point yes. Unfortunately at school when you get guidance teachers and they try to help you along, but I didn't find them very much help. They didn't really know the requirements for medicine.
JC That is shocking for 1998..
SW It was 1988..
JC Sorry, 88 anyway..
SW It is not maybe their fault, it is maybe the way the system works. I mean I was first aware that in 5th year I was told to apply and that would have been through an older system called UCCA and then you had PECAS as well, and then they merged and formed DUCAS. So I actually went through the older system when they were separate and at the time I just put down for deferred entry to go into medicine, with the aim of staying on for 6th year and then going on, unfortunately they processed my form wrong and I ended going through the whole thing so the medical schools…
JC Simply rejected ..
SW Well in all fairness Aberdeen and Dundee, were the ones that well they would have preferred to have me when I was a year older, which I was anticipating them saying anyway. Glasgow on the other hand they actually interviewed me. Which was an experience! Not one for someone who is 16 going up to the University …
JC A full medical …wow
SW So needless to say they wrote back and said apply next year, which is what I thought they would say anyway, and in my exams in 5th year I did reasonably well, enough that… I can't even remember what I got now ! I think 2 A's and 3 B's…
JC Within sight as it were but not straight A's?
SW Not straight in so obviously I stayed for my 6th year took 6th year studies in Chemistry in which I did very well and Biology, which were the two conditional offers from both Aberdeen and Dundee. Aberdeen wanting a grade higher in my Chemistry, if I remember right and Dundee saying if I got Chemistry at C and my Biology at an A they would have taken me. Unfortunately I didn't get my Biology in the A that they needed, I got a B, and if I look back at the time, I was actually on holiday at the time and the results were published and for the next couple of weeks it was very much to-ing and fro-ing between the universities, asking them what is happening. Aberdeen were optimistic in saying that they might be able to possibly take me, as it turned out, it unfortunately didn't happen and from there I ended up going back to Dundee and speaking to them about science, because believe it or not but when I phoned Aberdeen the woman I spoke to was not of very much help!
JC Oh dear!
SW So I ended up going to Dundee and in the space of about 5 minutes on a telephone call I got accepted for Bio-Chemistry and I started the week later.
JC And when you accepted that science place did you still hope to climb back into medicine, or were you at that stage settling for Bio-Chem, which after all is a very good degree?
SW Well the Bio-Chemistry maybe comes a little bit from my father, because my dad was saying that as you go through medicine there is a lot of cross-over between the sciences nowadays it is very much deemed a plus point for you to have an Intercalated degree or a double degree which I am now going to have.
JC So you have an honours degree in Bio-chemistry.
SW Yes I now have my Honours degree, which took 4 years.
JC Which class?
SW It was a 2:1, which I was delighted about and from that I had actually applied to Aberdeen and Dundee in 1997 to hopefuly start in 1998. I also applied to Glasgow, Manchester and ..I can't remember the other one. There was 5 in total. I got interviewed by Manchester, so that was a journey and a half down there on the British Rail system which was bouncing off the line. I went down to Manchester, it is a lovely university down there, to be faced by a panel of about 6 interviewers …
JC Oh dear, it seems to be the story of your life…
SW So after that interview I got an interview at Aberdeen. I came up, it was a more friendly atmosphere. I was at the Polworth Building, I can remember a couple of names. There was two of them I can remember because I met them later on, there was Dr. Furnace and Professor C.C. Smith who I ended up getting lectures from later on. I just remember fond memories of that interview was getting greeted by Professor Smith, I just remember when he came to shake my hand, I remember thinking I had big hands, but they are going to crush me!
JC It is supposed to be an advantage for a surgeon. You are supposed to have strong hands.
SW But the interview itself went well and not long after that I got a conditional offer from Aberdeen.
JC Conditional on your completing your degree.
SW Which I did, got the 2:1 which they stipulated and was fully anticipating going into first year and around about that time there was a lot of problems with too many students attaining their grades and not enough university places, which ended up with me being put in a position where I was actually being offered second entry.
JC But you would have preferred to do first year?
SW But looking back on it now maybe first year would have been a better option. It would have given me time maybe to calm down a bit and you know look forward to the new degree.
JC So when you came to Aberdeen in 1998 you mentioned to me earlier that you in fact took 5 years in the end anyway as you repeated a year. Interesting. So I have got the picture now, specifically would you have chosen Aberdeen if you had a free choice between Aberdeen, Dundee and Manchester let's say? Or was it simply that Aberdeen was the one that was most welcoming as it were?
SW It was down, it was pretty much that. It was the whole thing - the University was more open, it was more friendly …
JC Smaller, of course, than either Manchester or Glasgow.
SW It was smaller certainly, but the … after visiting Manchester you just had a sense of overawe in with them, especially being interviewed by about 6 or 7 people. You know, even foreign graduates, that would have been quite formidable. Especially when you were thinking it would just be a couple of people, but they had questions being fired in all directions, whereas up in Aberdeen they were more interested in you as a person, what you were like, what you could offer..
JC What your motivation was..
SW Exactly and looking at you as a future doctor. That's what I thought they were more looking at. I was even asked about when I was at primary school and when I was at secondary school did I feel that being in a rural area did that give me any advantages than maybe living in the city. You see .
JC How interesting.
SW It made you think back then, but looking back on it I think I was possibly always destined to come to Aberdeen. You know Aberdeen was the one who offered me a place from school and then when I came up here they said "why have you applied to Aberdeen again" and I said "Well you offered me a place before and I was hoping you would do the same again"! Maybe that worked, I don't know, but the end result was that I got in.
JC But going straight into 2nd year even with a good degree behind you, must have been in some way quite a shock, must it?
SW It was. There was a lot of gaps which they tried to cover. They gave us a crash course, 3 weeks in anatomy, and anatomy is usually done over a year. When I told my dad about that, he said well when he was doing it, it was nearly two years! And it didn't really, at the time, it wasn't really a big issue. Apart from when you went into the wards and you had a consultant say "what is this, what is that"? And you were going "I don't have a clue". Of course they think that you only learnt this last year, "what are they teaching you there?" But other than that there are areas of medicine, certainly in the science foundations, you know, bio-chemistry, physiology, which I had covered, so really anatomy was the one which I hadn't done, certainly in my first degree.
JC The course as a whole, looking back on it, has it been good?
SW Yes, it has.
JC What did you do for your electives and things?
SW My elective. I didn't go anywhere exotic for my elective. I stayed here. Well I didn't stay in Aberdeen I went to Glasgow and that was …
JC Big city stuff?
SW It was .. I did it in Radiology and my actual project was looking at MRI and the use of it in measuring tumours. But the experience of working in Glasgow Royal Infirmary .. I thought Aberdeen Royal Infirmary was big, but Glasgow Royal is .. I am not saying that size is everything, but it was just dauntingly big. At least with Aberdeen you can suss out where most things are, but in Glasgow it was like a rat-warren. You could easily get lost, which I ended up doing a couple of times, but I enjoyed my project time there. It was only seven weeks and the seven weeks, like most of 5th year it passed in a blur. One minute you were starting and the next minute you are saying goodbye.
JC Aberdeen has worked for you in the sense that you told me that you were going to stay on for your first houseman-ship here.
SW Yes. Aberdeen has ..I mean the course itself is .. I don't want to use the word "brilliant", but it is. It is set up in a way that you feel, certainly when you come to 5th year, after you have done your written finals in 4th year, doing 5th year you learn how to be a doctor.
JC That's what it is all about ..
SW It is very much like your driving test I would say. You are always told that when you are learning to drive you are just learning to pass the test, but after that then you are learning to drive. So in many senses the Aberdeen course is set up like that.
JC That is a good comparison.
SW 5th Year I would say is possibly the most enjoyable year. 4th Year is probably the biggest, most difficult year to be in.
JC Interesting. And thinking back to the people with whom you have been in contact with, I don't know if you would like to mention any particular teachers who have helped you. Or particular contemporary students, you know, who you think have been very helpful or very good, or useful people to interact with.
SW First one of the consultants, who for me, there are a number of consultants, obviously these are not in preferential order, ?Mr. Keanon,? who is a consultant surgeon at the Royal. He was my.. he was my teacher in 4th year and I was on his ward for two weeks. Not that I am putting any class mates in it, but I was in the ward on my own most of the time. There should have been another couple of us, but in the time coming up to Xmas certainly, we had the threat of exams and they were degree exams, but for me it was more important to go to the wards and see patients. Put what you learnt in 2nd and 3rd year together and try and work what is going on. For me ?Mr. Keanon? just stood out as one of the consultants who was always there, you know, if you were wanting to learn something, he would teach you. Going into day surgery he would let his.. his registrars message was "Do the procedures" and he would bring out his laptop and say "tell me about this" and give us a quick off-the-cuff tutorial for ten minutes!
JC That is great. Sounds like a very gifted teacher. I don't know him personally.
SW Yes, he is very, for me he stands out as one of the ones that I will remember. There are others, without a doubt. I don't .. I always remember a classmate saying "you don't want to have that person 'cause they are not nice".
JC Tough!
SW Exactly. I always remember dad saying to me that general medicine, they will certainly test you there! He said always watch out for the ward-round and the consultant, because they will really grill you! For me I don't think I really experienced that. There might have been occasions, where you would have gone to see a patient and the consultant would have asked you a question or would ask you to do something and you might be stuck and you would think everyone is looking at you and you have got to do something, but for me it never really felt like that. They were only ever encouraging.
JC Well that is very nice to hear. Turning away then from the academic to the sort of other sides of university. Have you found Aberdeen and attractive place to live? Have you enjoyed it?
SW When it is sunny!
JC When it is sunny! The weather is against it, isn't it.
SW It is, unlike today when it is raining. A lot of people say it is the Granite City and the grey stoneface can sometimes, especially when it is overcast, can be a little bit depressing, but there is nothing like it, especially when you are driving up the road and you come round the bend and you look down to Aberdeen when it is bathed in sunshine and the sea is blue, there are not many places that come close to it.
JC Where have you stayed when you have been in Aberdeen? Did you start off in a University residence, or have you always been independent?
SW No I stayed, well certainly when I first came up to Aberdeen, I stayed with two girls in my class, completely at random …
JC Complete strangers?
SW Not complete strangers, I mean I did know who they were, but we more or less just met at interview stage and one of the girls she had just bought a flat, so I stayed there, but you know, one boy, two girls …you know. Some things don't work, so then I went into University Postgraduate accommodation, for about 6 months or so, which was great, although I was doing an undergraduate degree, but you are counted as a postgraduate and you don't feel too out of it, but you are not too far removed from the young ones who are just coming up for the first time sort of thing. That was enjoyable and then obviously for 1999 I went and actually got my own flat. As my dad said I could either pay for accommodation and it is money that you are not going to see, or you could put it into a mortgage, which works out cheaper. So I went and bought a flat which had not long since been built. Just beside the hospital.
JC Oh great.. All mod cons..
SW Yes, all the mod cons ..
JC Did you have to take in tenants to help you pay?
SW No, I was fortunate enough that.. it was a 2-bedroomed flat, but I converted one of the bedrooms into a study. So I was fortunate in that sense I didn't have to have someone else in with me or something like that. Now that my sister is up here, she is doing geography…
JC So is she sharing ??
SW She doesn't want to share with her brother you see, so.
JC So against that sort of background could I ask you how you managed financially, because you have taken two degrees. You have been at it for nine years in a period when students don't get a lot of support. Have you amassed a huge debt?
SW Not as big as some people I have heard. When I was at Dundee I was fortunate enough that I was the only one, the only child in the family, who was at university, so for three years of my four at Dundee, I didn't have to rely on a student loan. I was very well helped by my parents, so I wasn't really having to go and get a job like lots of students do nowadays. In my final year however things had started to change. My sister, my middle sister, she came up, I shall rephrase that. The elder of my two sisters, she came up to Dundee and was doing Anatomy, so that was a case of me having to start sharing ..
JC Split the money between two of you.
SW Yes, split the money, so student loans started up then, so I ended up getting a loan for my final year at Dundee. Coming up to Aberdeen it was a continuation, but I was fortunate enough that I actually got a job, working at the weekends at the Virgin Megastore on Union Street.
JC And you could do that in spite of studying?
SW Studying medicine and working at the same time, but it was only one day a week and sometimes it went up to two days, you know, just the Saturday and Sunday, but it was always a case that there was there to help, and during the summer months and at Xmas time you could get extra hours. You could work more or less full-time.
JC In the same job?
SW In the same job.
JC So you have really resided in Aberdeen, vacations and all have you? Partially because of the means of getting decent employment?
SW Yes.
JC Interesting. Would it be indiscrete to ask how much of a debt you have ended up?
SW Roughly, if I tally up all the student loans I have had, that would be 6 years worth, you are talking about ten to twelve thousand.
JC Yes, that is modest compared to some people, isn't it?
SW Compared to some of my contemporaries.
JC I mean I know it might seem like quite a big pile to you, but ..
SW It does. You know, obviously you don't want to amass something like that, but at the end of the day, either .. you are not getting any help from the government really and student living… you can't rely on your parents, especially when my youngest sister came up to Aberdeen, effectively my dad was supporting four families.
JC Indeed, yes.
SW But I wouldn't say that …I know that there are classmates who have huge amounts of debts ..
JC And of course as a medic you will be able to pay it off relatively quickly ..
SW Of course that is always the plus-point. It made it more of a case that you had to make sure that you got through.
JC Absolutely! I wonder a little bit that the fact that you were doing a fairly demanding course, at least in terms of hours, and you were also working each weekend, did that restrict your social life? Or did it not?
SW No.
JC What sort of things did you indulge in?
SW I would say I was quite fortunate for my social life certainly in the first few years I was in Aberdeen. Being at Virgin I also met up with other students and it wasn't other medics it was people doing Chemistry or Social Sciences, or something like that, completely different to what you were doing.
JC That is important for medics to get out of the medical ghetto….
SW Yes, and you got into wee groups and I actually found myself more going out with groups of people from Virgin than maybe compared to bigger groups from medical school.
JC Interesting.
SW Simply from the point of view I think that you can study so much and you can talk about medicine so much but at the end of the day you really have to have something else to look at! I mean I enjoy football…
JC Playing or spectating?
SW Playing. I mean recently it hasn't been the same I have not been able to do it as much, but last week in fact, a group of my classmates said "right football". I suppose maybe in 4th and 5th year you are not always in the situation that you can do things like that. It is simply from the point of view you could be all over the place. Fourth year was split up into weeks of a subject, part of medicine, so you never had the same pattern, whereas in fifth year you had them split into blocks, but again some of your class could be away in elective, in Australia, which seemed to be a very popular destination! They could be up in Inverness doing medicine or surgery, or away somewhere rural in Dumfries doing GP. So you really didn't .. in fact it was only last week that I met up with people I had known in 3rd year and it was like "how long have I not seen you for? A year and a half or something". But obviously you have lots of tales to tell and email is a great thing.
JC Yes, email has made a huge difference. Was your whole student experience bound by email? Or did it really creep up about half way through?
SW Dundee certainly, when I started at Dundee that was when you had your email address, it was like "Oh what do I do with this then?" I had been very interested in computers and information technology, but going to university gave you the ability to experience all these things, like the Internet and World Wide Web. Terms that my mum and dad would say what are you talking about! Email and mobile phones.
JC Did you have a mobile phone right from the beginning?
SW No I didn't.
JC When did you get one?
SW My first mobile phone was probably for 2nd year at Dundee and it was one of the old analogue ones. It was like a brick! Not like nowadays where they are small enough you can loose then down a drain or something like that. It always got hot, you know you were holding it for 5 minutes and it started to heat up.
JC So you could believe that it was going to fry your brain!
SW So you could believe it. Not like the ones nowadays that they say they don't!
JC Yes, that is a very interesting point there, isn't it, that student life is very much more connected by these technological links, than by actually meeting people.
SW Yes, text messaging and things like that. All things that maybe ten years ago they would have wondered what is this and they have just taken on leaps and bounds, but in many ways they are bringing people closer together.
JC Is it true that you sit in lectures and text message you friends?
SW I didn't, but I wouldn't be too surprised if some people did. In fact you would feel embarrassed if your mobile, well I would anyway, if I forgot to switch my phone off and it went off. I would be very embarrassed, but some people if it did go off and you would hear them rustling around and trying to switch it off.
JC Of course you can't use them in a hospital anyway can you.
SW Thankfully, you have.. I suppose next year the pager will be the bane of my life! Not the beep, beep of the phone.
JC Thinking of your student experience from two points of view now, I mean, one, you have experienced two different universities, admittedly in different subjects, I wonder if you have any different thoughts about how Aberdeen and Dundee have differed. I mean not just necessarily for your yourself, but as places to go to.
SW I would say they are more similar. There a lot of similarities between Aberdeen and Dundee. My experience from my elective of going to Glasgow, you can list endless things which are different with Glasgow. Aberdeen to me is a much more friendly city, it is not so hectic. The same as Dundee.
JC Smaller..
SW It is smaller, it is nice. It is a lovely city, especially when the sun is out. It makes a heck of a difference to anywhere you go. Aberdeen and Dundee are more similar than dis-similar.
JC And thinking of your longish student life from another point of view and maybe this isn't an easy question to answer. If you can think back to yourself and your contemporaries, you know nine years ago, as compared with now……
End of first side of tape
JC We are starting side two of the recording and what Struan and I were just talking about was whether there were contrasts over the nine years he has been a student. In general student attitudes and experience. We have talked about money, we have talked about communication I wondered if there was anything else?
SW That is a difficult one to think of.. I mean communication and finances to me seem to leap out. Maybe in the sense of students who will always go out and drink to excess..
JC Yes, I wondered if you had views about drink or drugs. I mean as a medic you are in a slightly different position from others but you observed, presumably?
SW I mean as far as I am concerned drugs is a no-go area. I have zero tolerance with that.
JC All kinds, tobacco included?
SW Oh, I do not like smoking. I don't smoke myself. I don't detest people who smoke, because some of my friends smoke. A friend of mine, who I have know since I was four, who is actually in Aberdeen, took up smoking when he went to college. I didn't then to say to him I didn't want to see him again because he took up smoking.
JC You tolerated him.
SW Tolerated him. Well I have always tried to persuade him to stop smoking. I will succeed some time. Tobacco for me I would say there has been a swing. There has been a swing. Usually it was a case that it was males that smoked …
JC But now it is the women.
SW Now it is women and to me, I don't know if it is a fashion statement or what, but that is more worrying as is the alcohol consumption.
JC You have noticed heavy drinking women.
SW When I was at Dundee it was good to go out, you know you are 18, you are allowed to go to a pub without being told to scram. You get to experience all these things, but to me you would see guys who would drink to excess. The girls tended not to. Females tended to be a bit more sensible about it, but as I have progressed through university life I have seen a swing again more towards females. Again I don't know what it is.
JC A statement of equality, perhaps? I don't know. It is an unhappy thing if it is.
SW Whatever the cause is I am not terribly sure, but I have observed that.
JC And have you observed much reliance on drugs, other than tobacco and alcohol?
SW There are occasions where it is something which is becoming more prominent ..
JC Medics presumably have to be fairly careful because you don't want a black mark on your record.
SW I would say that I haven't, I don't know people that I know I have never observed them doing it, but that is not to say that some of them don't. It is just I haven't seen them doing it, so to me I don't have anything to do with that. I have although seen other people, when I have been out, you do see it happening.
JC The newspapers tell us that the drugs problem in Aberdeen has got much worse over the last three years or so. It is certainly at the bottom of a lot of theft for example. I am not implying that students do but in general.
SW Well even looking at my working at Virgin, you got to see another part of life and that was shoplifting.
JC Oh, yes. Very tempting items, small easy to pocket.
SW Small, easy to pocket. They think they can get away with it and they forget that we have got eyes and ears at the back of our head, you know. To begin with when I was at Virgin I didn't really have much to do with that side but as I progressed through, up the ranks sort of thing, you either were getting more responsibility and they always say security is a responsibility for everyone. The difference is you don't want a girl going and challenging a big burly bloke. I wouldn't want to do that probably! But you saw it more and it was always the same type of people. You eventually were able to spot them a mile away.
JC As they came through the door almost.
SW You sort of just knew. One I remember was and it wasn't even, it was a teenager. There was a group of three of them and I was at the front door talking to a staff member and it was just the look, you know. They glanced over to see who was about, what were they doing, did they spot them, and they immediately got me suspicious about them. I went round to the other side of the store and stood at the front door, waiting for them to come out, and they walked out with a pair of headphones and it was like ..
JC "Could I see your receipt please sir" did you say!
SW No, I just said "That's an interesting way of taking things out, where is your receipt" and the face on him, I can still remember now, and I just thought right you are coming with me, you know. But there have been others, but you just begin to wonder, is it a dare? Did you get put up to it by your friends? That is a common thing, especially with youngsters, maybe about 10 or 12. There is a new initiative that they brought out where if we caught a minor they would have to go to the Childrens' Panel and they were told they would have to write a letter of apology to the store, which happened a couple of times. Usually the letters were along the lines of "my friend put me up to it". But yes, you are an individual. You can make the choice. You know it is wrong, why do you do it?
JC Interesting that this particular kind of shop keeping has quite a lot of spin off for your future medical career. It has made you very observant of people.
SW Yes, it has. If I get back to the original question you asked I would say that the cost of things has made people more, for thieves, smaller items but higher value. Something which might cost £20 in our store they might be lucky if they get a fiver when they pass it on in a pub or as some people have been observed to do, they sell it on the move. Just walk down the street and saying "Do you want to buy this". I think that stems from the drugs problem. Even back in my home town of Dunoon that has been a, you know it wasn't much of a problem when I was at school, but nowadays it is observable. You see a pupil in the middle of the day and you just think there is something funny about the way they are looking or walking. It is a sad thing to look at.
JC Yes, a sad business. And that connects us slightly remotely with another thing. I was wondering about whether you had yourself or your friends any strong political interests as students. Or were you just individuals and voted your own things ?
SW Politics , I have never talked about politics with my classmates. No I mean ..
JC Even the politics in the Health Service?
SW We all have. We usually have the same point of view. You know we don't like so and so, we don't like the way they are doing things. We feel the NHS is being pushed into the ground . Always talk about money, there is not enough money for this, there is not enough money for that.
JC Too many bureaucrats, too few nurses, the usual story.
SW We have never, I have never been in a situation that we have actually sat down and talked about the way we would vote. We just .. far more interesting things to talk about!
JC But you must have incidentally, just a little passing comment from me, you must have a high degree of tolerance of pop music, if you have worked in Virgin all these years!
SW I always had a broad liking in music. I would enjoy classical music right up to the heavy, dance, rock that they do nowadays. Now you are getting music genres, like urban and things like that. It makes you just thing what does it mean! You just begin to think am I getting old. But no, I mean you experience a lot of the music stuff when you go to clubs and pubs even. Sometimes their music is too loud. You can't hear yourself think, let alone talk.
JC Well talking about talking, are there any items at all that you would like to put on the record that I haven't happened to ask you about, that you would like to put down.
SW No I don't think there is. I think you have pretty well covered everything.
JC Well it has been extremely enjoyable talking to you. Thanks you very much indeed.
SW Thank you very much.
End of recording.
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