| Description | Interview with Helen Zyw who graduated 2002, with an Honours degree in French, having previously started towards, and in 1983 gained an Ordinary Degree at this University. Recorded on the afternoon of 16 September 2002 by Jennifer Carter.
Transcript of Interview :
JC Okay, well it has been very nice chatting informally first with you, Helen, and could I take you back over something I asked you a moment ago, and tell me about your very unusual surname, because I was thrown completely when I saw how you spelled it. What is it? it is Hzy?
HZ Zyw in fact.
JC So you see - I even wrote it down wrong!
HZ H is Helen, Zyw is "Geeve". In fact the pronunciation is "Geeve" as in Dr. Zhivago. The name is Polish or perhaps Polish/Russian, and my husband's father came from that part of the world. He came over during the war. He was in fact the official Polish army war artist. He worked his way across the world and finally ended up in Scotland where he met my mother-in-law and decided to stay.
JC Yes, that was one of my surprises as an English person coming to work in a Scottish university what a lot of resident Poles there were. I remember one of the first students I taught here in fact was an extremely broad Scottish speaking young man called Jim Shokalofsky and he of course was from a Polish family which had come over in World War II. Anyway that is a side issue, because you told me that your maiden name was Harper, which suggests that you are Scots, query, by birth?
HZ Yes, Scots.
JC Local?
HZ Well funnily enough I am now living in Aberdeenshire, I was born in Edinburgh . I was brought up between Fife and Edinburgh, and went to school in Edinburgh, and when the time came to decide which university to go to, I choose Aberdeen, because I thought it would be nicer to be further away from home, than just to go to Edinburgh University, and so I got a place here. When I graduated in 1983 I completely lost touch with the place. I didn't keep in touch with anyone, didn't come back to Aberdeen, until three years ago, when my husband and I moved up again from Edinburgh. We bought a house, not in Aberdeen, but in Aberdeenshire. About 1½ hours west of here, and it was at that point that I decided to come back and finish my degree properly and rather spookily, when my father discovered where the house was that we had just bought, he said "but your ancestors are all buried in the graveyard just down the road"!
JC Good heavens!
HZ This was totally, totally unknown to me, because we had picked the house, because we had fell in love with the house, not because we particularly wanted to come up here. We had decided to leave town and both pursue our own careers from home. My husband is an architect and a painter, so he can do that quite easily, and I was doing a lot of translation work at the time, so it suited us to do that. We saw the house, fell in love with it, bought it, and then dad said you know Ruthven churchyard, a mile down the road, is where all your ancestors are buried? It was really quite spooky. In fact his family had lived in the Huntly area, earlier last century and in the 19th century, and then moved away. So there aren't any Harpers of our family left there now.
JC How interesting. How nice to be surrounded by one's ancestors. That's lovely. Coming back to your school days, though, when you first chose Aberdeen, which Edinburgh school were you at?
HZ Well I started off at a school in Edinburgh called St. George's.
JC Oh yes, I know St. G's well. Sounds like you didn't like it?
HZ I didn't like it very much. I wasn't very happy there. I complained bitterly, and my parents got fed up and took me away and sent me to the local comprehensive, which was Queen Anne High School in Dunfermline, and the 2 establishments couldn't have been more different. After my initial culture shock, I settled down to my last two years and really quite enjoyed it.
JC And got good grades?
HZ And got reasonable grades, I got enough to get into university basically.
JC Why Aberdeen, apart from wishing to get a long way, or some way, from home?
HZ Really I don't think any particularly deep reasons.
JC Just that in fact. Did other girls from your school and young men from your school come up to Aberdeen or not?
HZ Yes, I think there was a handful of us, but I don't think it was particularly for that reason that I wanted to come, but I just thought it would be quite nice to be 2 hours away from home, far enough away that I would have to live away from home, but near enough that I could go home for the odd weekend.
JC And it worked out reasonably well? Do you remember your first impressions at all? I think you told me you had been in Hillhead. Is that right? Was that then or on your subsequent return?
HZ No, no, on my subsequent return I have been at home in Banffshire. No, first year I lived in kind of digs, I suppose, in Mastrick.
JC Gosh, was that a deliberate choice? Were you a late applicant?
HZ No, I don't know what happened, but I didn't have anywhere to stay, just disorganisation, and my father happened to have a lady who worked for him, because he had a business, and part of it was based in Aberdeen. He had an employee who lived in Mastrick, and she very kindly said she would rent me a room in her house, and so I stayed with her and her husband for the first year.
JC Yes, because in 1980, if that's when it was, I mean we must have been then, surely, guaranteeing first year in hall, that sort of thing.
HZ I think I must have been really disorganised.
JC Funny now to think back how one can be when one is a youngster! So your first year in Mastrick, and then did you move into Hillhead after that?
HZ Yes, I got a room in Hillhead in second year, my third year I went out, and so the fourth year I was back in Hillhead.
JC And what sort, if you can remember, what sort of experience was that, both the digs and the Hall bit?
HZ I absolutely hated Hillhead! It was a nightmare!
JC It can be noisy. For that reason or for other reasons?
HZ I just didn't enjoy sharing a flat with 5 other people. I wasn't very happy at all.
JC Whereas in the digs you had had a room to yourself, and been the only student in the house?
HZ Yes, it was really temporary, and I knew it was temporary, and it was okay. I think because I was, it was my first time away from home and everything was very new. University was new. I wasn't thinking too much, I was very comfortable. They looked after me very well, and you know it was fine, but I knew I wouldn't be staying there terribly long. But two years in Hillhead, I didn't enjoy that at all! And I was always trying to find a flat of my own in town, and of course it never really worked out, it was quite difficult to do.
JC In the early '80's it was a very bad period for accommodation. It was before the University had built all these outlying halls and things, wasn't it?
HZ That's right, and so I never really managed to do that, but I really wanted to live on my own, and it never worked out, so. I didn't like waking up the smell of other people's burnt toast every single morning!
JC The flat was self-catering obviously, it wasn't one of the Hillhead flats, where you eat in the central building. It was a self-catering flat was it?
HZ The first year was meals provided, and the second one was self-catering.
JC So the first year you shouldn't have had the burnt toast, but there may have been other disadvantages. I am interested in such a strong reaction against Hillhead, and wondered if there was any other reason like for example, the noisiness, or lack of privacy, or ..
HZ Lack of privacy certainly. Lack of space, I think that was a lot to do with it.
JC Then I think you told me earlier that you weren't very well during this first degree, so that may have been a bad to place to be ill too?
HZ It wasn't a good time, and all those reasons really contributed to my just terminating things at the end of the Ordinary Degree. With I think with the intention always of coming back at some point in the future.
JC So that you decided to do when you came to live near here, and was that fairly easy to switch back into the system?
HZ It was remarkable easy. I think I tried to do something similar in Edinburgh, and hadn't got anywhere, and I was really quite impressed the way Aberdeen just got me back in and really how easy it was to get back into the system. It really wasn't difficult at all, in fact I completed 3 years before I did my final exams this summer. The first year I did German and Spanish, and then the second year I did Junior Honours French and third year Senior Honours French.
JC And did you have to have any period of residence abroad, or had you covered that in other ways?
HZ I had covered that. I had well covered that.
JC So it took you three years to do what? Had you done it at the time would have taken you 2 years?
HZ No, I didn't need the German and Spanish, that was purely for fun for me, because in the intervening years between first and second degrees, I had taught myself German and Spanish, and used the both a bit in various jobs, and I just wanted to get some kind of qualification and do a bit of literature and things like that. So the first year was pure pleasure and self-indulgence!
JC And that was on a full-time basis, or part-time? You could take two courses on a part-time basis I remember.
HZ It was part-time, in fact, although in terms of hours in the week, I think there wasn't a lot of difference between that and the French full-time.
JC I would imagine there was a difference in the fee, wasn't there? When you were a part-time student you presumably paid much, much less than when you became a full-time student. So then you went for French Honours and did a normal 2 years, Junior/Senior, just like anyone else.
HZ Yes, that's right.
JC How did that work out for you, in terms with fitting in with the other people? The others, I presume that you were alongside, had just come back from their year abroad?
HZ Yes.
JC Some of them very young.
HZ Yes.
JC Some of them mature students. How did it sort of work socially for you?
HZ A few were mature, but the majority was around, I suppose 21-22. Socially, I have to say, that I just didn't get involved at all.
JC You just did your own thing.
HZ Absolutely! I did.
JC Fair enough. Universities are there for you to use them as you wish.
HZ It was sort of tunnel-vision. I would just come driving in, in the morning, go to all the classes, dash into the library, get what I needed, and dash home again!
JC And did most of your work at home I guess?
HZ Yes I did.
JC Right, interesting. How did the courses work for you. Did you enjoy them?
HZ They were wonderful. I mean, you know, as you say, self-indulgence! It was just what I wished to do at that time. I didn't find it difficult. I sometimes wonder when people say, "Oh it's so much more difficult coming back, to be a mature student". You know the learning process is so much harder. I totally disagree. It was a breeze, and I have to say that I didn't do a lot of work! I didn't. No I never worked a minute over 6 o'clock in the evening. So that was my experience of it. A few people have said it is so difficult going back, you are so brave being a mature student, and it just couldn't have been more different for me.
JC That's very interesting. Could I ask then, what class a degree you took?
HZ I got a First!
JC Well done, congratulations. That's super!
HZ Thank you.
JC A breeze to a First! Well, well! Were there other Firsts this year, or were you the only one?
HZ Yes, there was. Someone got a First in English .. I think, someone who did joint English/French, and there was another single Honours French as well.
JC Nevertheless, that is fairly distinguished, being one of the three top people, isn't it? That is very good. Congratulations, that is just super. So that has in a sense paid back all your part-time and full-time and your wish to finish it off. But if I have understood you correctly, I suppose your coming back was the feeling that you had not done yourself justice the first time. Is that right?
HZ I think so. Yes. Over the years, I sort of told myself, well I have got my M.A. and perhaps I don't really …I have never been terribly ambitious professionally, but I think yes, sort of deep down, I had this sort of niggling feeling, that I had to finish it just for my own satisfaction.
JC Well I am very glad that it has worked out and not just sort of worked out any old how, but really well indeed. So you enjoyed the courses. What about the kind of practicalities of day to day life as a student. You say that you came in for classes, you used the library, you dashed home. Did that present any sort of practical problems. I am thinking of silly things, like where do you park the car, when you have driven 40 miles from Banff! And what was the library like, and what was the computing facilities like? Those sort of practical things.
HZ Sure, well parking the car was a nightmare! I don't know who is in charge of the student car park, but I have got quite a few scrapes. It is truly a nightmare. It is okay at the moment as term has not begun, but I mean there is just no room to manoeuvre at all. On quite a few occasions I would be leaving to go home, and my car would be completely wedged in and the only way of getting out would be to scrape it!
JC Am I right in think that the student car park is that one on a piece of rough ground just to the south of the library, that is the one we are talking about, just off Bedford road.
HZ Yes.
JC And that is the only place you can park as a student is it?
HZ Well apart from side streets and things.
JC Which is probably safer, if you can find it! Okay so parking was a daily nightmare. You were however when you arrived and got parked you were near the library, The Queen Mother Library. How did that work for you. Was it okay?
HZ Practically, yes, it was fine.
JC You got everything you needed there, no hassles.
HZ No hassles, no problems at all. I didn't spend a lot of time working there. I would just go in, get the stuff I needed, and as I say, take it home and work from home, because at home I have got my own computer and printer. So I never actually got an Edward Wright Building computer access until the very end, in fact, when we were advised to get a password to link up with the University system in order to get our results!
JC As yes, so you clocked on at that point.
HZ So it wasn't until the final week that I clocked on and got myself a password, because when the results were due to be issued I was actually going to be in France. So I was over in France when I found out more or less what I had got, so I had my password by the stage and I was able to key in and get the thing over the WEB.
JC So as far as the library was concerned you tick the box "yes it was fine", so far as computing concerned, you don't really know, because you didn't have to use it.
HZ No idea at all, apart from ..
JC And of course the Queen Mother Library as it now is, was not in existence in that form during your during your first spell here, was it? You were presumably in the old library ? The one near King's College Chapel.
HZ Yes, that is right, and in fact that was one of the big disappointments when I came back in 1999 to find that that library no longer existed as a library, because it was one of the really nice aspects of being a student when I was here the first time. It was a lovely place to work.
JC So you missed that like many graduates have said they had done.
HZ Yes, because the Queen Mother Library, efficient and practical as it is, just doesn't have the same atmosphere at all.
JC When you say you liked working in the old library, was it as well as having a good atmosphere, was it convenient, in a sense. Did you get a reserved desk and stuff like that or not?
HZ I don't remember.
JC You don't even remember! Well it was 20 years ago! Because my impression of it was that it was a lovely atmosphere, but not terribly convenient to work in. For one thing people talked a lot. Terrible gossipy noises went on all the time.
HZ But they still do.
JC They still do in Queen Mother do they?
HZ Yes, they still do.
JC Well I can see why you worked at home! What about the other services which the University offers. I don't know in the range of University services which ones you used, other than the Hillhead Halls, which we have heard about. But there are Advisers of Studies, Chaplains, Health Service, Counsellors, did you cross any of their thresholds?
HZ I didn't no. Well first time round in '79 to '82/'83, I certainly used the Health Service, I am sure.
JC And was that good at that time? Was it going through a good phase? Did you get a good deal or not?
HZ Again I don't remember too clearly. I mean I don't have a negative memory, so presumably it was fine, yes.
JC And did you ever have to use university Counsellors, for example, you know these "Shrink" type people?
HZ No, no.
JC And you never darkened the door of the Chaplaincy, or any of the other support services?
HZ No.
JC Do you remember if you had an Adviser of Studies on your first go round?
HZ I do. Yes.
JC And was that a helpful person?
HZ Yes, and in fact he was one of my lecturers, because he was Dr. John Roach of the French department..
JC Oh yes, I know him well. He was your adviser.
HZ Yes, he was my adviser first time round.
JC Did he smooth your path back the second time, or was he not involved?
HZ He wasn't really involved the second time round, no I don't think he was.
JC I just wondered.
HZ In fact it was the German department who smoothed my path when I came back in 1999.
JC Good.
HZ But it was really nice to see Dr. Roach again, because as I said he had been my adviser in 1980, and he had smoothed my year out, because I didn't, again untypically, I didn't do a typical year out. I did a kind of individual year out …
JC Two bits or something, or 3 bits perhaps.
HZ I took the year out but I didn't do what the department wanted me to do! So he said that was fine and it all worked, because I did in fact spend the required number of months in France in the end.
JC So you were lucky with your Adviser.
HZ Yes I was.
JC Because I think that can be a fairly variable experience. And when you came back again, did you get a formal Adviser during your part-time year? Your German/Spanish year, did someone advise you then?
HZ I did, I had Dr. Colin Milton of the English department.
JC Another good stalwart!
HZ So again very good.
JC Good and then you moved into French and the department looked after you from that time on.
HZ Yes.
JC Did you find incidentally any differences with your relationships with staff on your second go round, as compared with your first. Your first time around you were after all, young, straight from school, the staff probably seemed immensely much older? When you came back you were seeing some of the same faces, well two of them.
HZ Well two or three of them.
JC Did you find that you were on sort of easier terms with the staff, or am I making this up? I was generally wondering if a mature student has a kind of different relationship with their teaching staff from a youngster.
HZ To be honest, I don't think I ever spent enough time with anyone to really notice much of a difference there. I mean the answer is probably yes.
JC But it wasn't something that struck you?
HZ No.
JC And of course in turn, that makes me wonder whether it's function of the fact that 20 years later the academic staff are much more hard pressed than they were when you were first here.
HZ Yes.
JC When you were here in the beginning of the '80's we had, relatively speaking, a lot of staff, compared with students, and now ratio is much less favourable, and I wonder if that means that nowadays people while still you know caring and efficient, don't have that much time to sit and chat.
HZ I think that could be possible.
JC Are there other aspects of the University that you can compare as between your two visits. You mentioned staff and you have mentioned the library experience, is there anything else which coming back after a spell struck you.
HZ The Auld Toon Café!
JC It just goes on and on!
HZ That was such a wonderful place to go and have coffee after the 10 o'clock lecture. So in other words at 11o'clock we would all repair to the Auld Toon Café and it was a wonderful steamy, smoky, grubby place!
JC Yes, I remember it in that state!
HZ It had wonderful Apply Turnovers, and everyone would sit there smoking furiously and that is gone now. Well it is still there, but it not just the same, in the same way that the library is still there, but not the same.
JC Did you ever have coffee there? You know the new library, well the library as it has now become. Did you ever go and have morning coffee there?
HZ In the kinda of the foyer?
JC No, sorry I meant what was main room of the old library.
HZ No, I don't think so.
JC I just wondered if you went nostalgically back to have coffee.
HZ Oh, yes. I have done. In fact I had lunch there the other day.
JC Sorry I interrupted there. So you noticed the difference in the Auld Toon Café. Any general differences that you were able to pick up as between the way students behaved in lectures, for example, or any students who talked to you. You said that you kept yourself pretty much to yourself. But I wondered if you picked any interesting attitude or other changes?
HZ Now I wonder if this is right? I wonder if students today, are really just interested in the job they are going to get, when they graduate. I just feel that people I spoke to, second time round, that was really all they had on their minds, and I am sure it wasn't quite like that the first time. Maybe it was because I lived here the first time, and I had more friends, people that I knew better, so we would naturally have more in-depth conversations about things. Whereas the people I have known second time round, I only spoke really quite superficially to, maybe that is the reason, but I just got the impression nobody really wanted to discuss anything really about what they were actually studying. That was just a means to an end, and you know, it was just the job at the end, was their degree going to be good enough to get them a well paid job. I don't think it was quite like that first time around, but it may just be that I had a different relationship with people.
JC Did you for example, get the impression that people were very weighed down with the debts they were incurring or was that never mentioned?
HZ I think most people seemed to have a part-time job.
JC So they were trying to minimise their debt in that way.
HZ And of course when I studied first time round we all had grants, so it was very different in that respect.
JC Changed days. One silly little detail that someone mentioned, which I would never have thought of, was the complete change in the use of mobile phones, and how when she had started on her 5 year degree nobody had them, and when she came back from her year abroad, everybody had them!
HZ Yes, students today have cars and mobile phones. When I was a student first time round no one had anything. You know it was quite rare for a student to have a car.
JC That may also reflect the greater number of mature students, you know, as they are more likely to have wheels than youngsters. Well that is super Helen, is there anything we haven't talked about that you think we ought to have done. Anything you would have liked to read into this record?
HZ There are probably quite a lot of things, but I think we have probably covered most of the relevant things ..
JC No if there is anything you would like to say I would be very interested to hear them. I have probably not asked all the right questions?
HZ I think we have just about covered everything.
JC Okay, well thank you very much indeed. I found that extremely interesting and it has been nice meeting you. I will switch off then.
HZ Thank you.
End of Interview
|