| Description | Interview with Richard Stretton, recorded on 3 July 2002 by Jennifer Carter.
Transcript of Intervieew :
JC So Richard, what drove you to Aberdeen Medical School? Are you a local, or did you come some way to come here?
RS No, I am actually from Northern Ireland. Although not many people seem to pick up now because I have been here six years and my accent has been lost somewhat.
JC It has moderated quite a bit.
RS Yes. I think it has moderated quite a bit. Yes. I think there are a few Scottish words thrown in there. Why did I come to Aberdeen? Originally when choosing my medical school, a lot of people in Northern Ireland choose Belfast, because it is the only one in Northern Ireland, and it is quite local. Northern Ireland is so small, you know, you can get home quite easily from anywhere. And I did choose Belfast for one of my options, but I wanted to move away. I wanted to try somewhere else, see something new, and my parents used to actually live in Aberdeen, when they first got married. So they told me some stories about it. I also chose a few other medical schools in Scotland, but Aberdeen accepted me so I decided to take the plunge and move across the water.
JC Did you have any connections of your parents in the city still around, or was this too long ago?
RS I think it was 20 odd years ago since they had been here. Only friends of my parents were here, but distant friends, obviously, as they hadn't seen them in a long time, but no other connections.
JC But no other real contact. Some people come to where they have aunties, grannies.
RS No. Nothing like that. So it was a bit of a plunge.
JC How easy is it, in your time, to travel between Northern Ireland and here? Have you got decent cheap air links or what?
RS Well I wouldn't fly home regularly, it's too expensive, but I would take the train down to Stranraer and then take the ferry across to Belfast. So in total from leaving here it is about eleven hours to get home. You could be in New York by then! As I have said many a time, but being a typical student I have to find the cheapest way. It is quite popular, that way, and I usually meet a few friends, coming either from Dundee, Glasgow, on the same train on the way down, so can usually meet people that way.
JC Were you unusual in choosing Aberdeen as a Medical School from Belfast? You came from Belfast?
RS I came from actually a town called Ballymena, which is about half an hour's drive from Belfast.
JC Were you unusual in choosing Aberdeen?
RS Yes, it was actually. Certainly most people from my school and a lot of people from Northern Ireland would choose Glasgow or Dundee, nearest, more central. As far as I know I am the only one, I beg your pardon, there was one other student chose medicine, but he then decided to change to another course once he got here. So I am the only student from Ballymena. The only Ballymena medic this year, and to my knowledge I don't know anyone below me, in the years below. It is strange because it is such a good Medical School here, it's very highly rated.
JC It is probably the distance.
RS It is probably the distance. I certainly know from my mother, who is a teacher in the school I came from, and she has been talking to some people who were choosing medicine, and they were saying that they liked Aberdeen, the city and the course, but just the distance, they wanted to be closer to home. So that probably stands against it somewhat.
JC Dundee has always been very popular with Northern Ireland people.
RS Hugely popular. I don't know… the percentage of Northern Ireland students is unbelievable. I don't know why that is.
JC Partly, I think like Glasgow, there are a lot of Northern Irish connections in Dundee, and also these things get a sort of momentum of their own.
RS Yes they do. People have friends and they say "I go to Dundee and it's great. You should come here". So that is probably how it just rolls on like that.
JC Yes, Yes. So you, yourself, did you find yourself at all lonely or did you fit in very easily?
RS No. I mean first year is, people say it is really easy to meet people and make friends. I have vivid memories of my first night. I was in Dunbar, which is just up the road, which is now closed, and I remember my first night I was, I have to say petrified!
JC A big burly chap like you petrified - I don't believe it!
RS I turned up and there was no one else in my corridor at the time, and I sort of, my parents left, and I was in the room on my own and there was no one else about, so I just sort of went to bed. And I remember lying there thinking, who am I going to meet? What is it going to be like? It is pretty terrifying when your parents go, and that's you. You are there. But the next day I started meeting people, and I think a lot of people had the same experience that you just make friends so easily, as everyone is in the same boat. They are all wanting to meet people, and in fact I am still living with the people I met in the first week. Firm friends, and I am just back from one of my friends who is now working in London, and I have just spent a week with him, who I met on that first week. So you do make strong connections.
JC That particular experience, I imagine you were in Hall for just one year, were you?
RS Yes. Just the one year.
JC Did that mean that some of the friends you made were not Medics, and have they have stayed friends?
RS Yes, surprisingly some of them were, yes, which was unusual for a Medic, but yes, some of them were non-medics, and I've kept in touch with a few of them. Certainly it is harder to keep in touch with non-medics, because you do get into this world of medicine where everyone is talking about their own career and you know where everyone is going, and then someone gets a job elsewhere, and you loose touch, but I certainly had a few good non-medic friends. Which is healthy in this profession.
JC And very important to communicate with people who aren't in your world.
RS Indeed. You can get this little enclosed world that you live in and you realise that other people do have lives.
JC So what happened accommodation wise after first year. You moved in with a gaggle of friends to a flat or something?
RS Yes. I think it is everybody's first experience of living in a flat, after that first year in Halls. We went up to Spring Gardens in the town.
JC That was the big University development.
RS Yes. A big development. Seven of us in one flat!
JC How did that work out?
RS It worked out actually okay. It was a lot of fun. We had out problems, as everyone does, you know, when you start cooking for yourself, and you start, you know, having to maintain a flat. I wouldn't say it was idyllic. It wasn't exactly spotless, but we survived the year and as I said, I am still living with the people I am still living with, so there was no major fallings-out. It taught us a lot about how to look after yourself, because certainly in first year your meals are provided, and things like that, and how to budget. You know, you can't go to Sainsburys every week. You have to go to Safeways every so often! So it was a good learning experience in that respect.
JC And then you moved on to where?
RS We moved on because Spring Gardens is good for that sort of experience, but it doesn't really feel like a home to be honest. You know it is still an institution. We actually moved right the other end of town, down Holburn Street. Miles away from anywhere, and it was just 4 of us in the flat, and we stayed there for three years. We really enjoyed it. Bit of a struggle for our friends because it is very far from around here, which is where most students live, and even the hospital was a 40 minute walk away.
JC You did walk, did you?
RS We walked every day, for 3 years!
JC Really!
RS Yes. You get used to it after the first few months. You know, you get up on time and you do the walk, and most people were amazed that we did it, but it is something we got used to.
JC Probably there wasn't a direct bus link anyway ?
RS There was a bus, but it would have taken longer!
JC Hopeless!
RS Aberdeen bus system. So anyway I think it did us good, that walk every day. We didn't mind it all.
JC And you stayed in that same flat right till now?
RS No we just moved out last year. We are just up Bedford Road now, just in the last year.
JC Bedford Road, which is nice and equidistant.
RS Yes and close to most people. People don't mind visiting now.
JC And jumping ahead, are you going to stay on in Aberdeen now for your house year?
RS I am not - no. I am moving, we all start in August, and I am going to be down in Perth, for an entire year. Most jobs in the junior doctor role is 6 months, and then 6 months, and you can do those in two different places, but I happen to be doing both of mine in Perth, which I am looking forward to. It is a smaller hospital. Supposed to be a fantastic job from friends who are doing it at the moment, so I am really looking to the move.
JC Well that was jumping ahead a little bit. We talked a little bit about Dunbar being a very good social base for you at University. What other networks did you find you made as you went through the course other than your medical ones?
RS Other than the medical ones. Well I think most people, one of the things they look to when they come to University is joining a club or getting involved, you know.
JC Did you have time?
RS Surprisingly in the first few years - yes. Laterly, definitely not, but in the first few years - during school I had been involved in the school play, had been involved in drama, and it was something I wanted to keep going. So when I got here, I looked up, and they had Centre Stage as one of their sort of… what's the word I am looking for. . societies! That's the word. So I went along in first year and not knowing anyone in the group, auditioned for a play, and was lucky enough to get the lead role. Which was a bit of a shock!
JC Excellent. What was the play?
RS It was Doctor in the House actually! Which was a coincidence and little of my medical knowledge came to bare on it, it has to be said. Yes, so that was a fantastic way of meeting people who, I mean, most people were doing Arts courses, and I remember at the introductory meeting, we went round and had to say who we were, what we were studying, what experience we had. I was one of the last ones, and I remember it came to me, and I said Medicine, and everyone gave a sort of startled look, and going "what are you doing here?". But that was a fantastic experience, because we put it on in the Lemon Tree, which was a good venue. Not a total success, it has to be said. The audiences were slim, but we had great fun doing it, and the reviews were okay. So that was good, and I made friends from there, which I still see occasionally. I have been here for 6 years, and a lot of them have finished and moved on, but I still some. In 3rd year I went again for another play, Much Ado About Nothing. Slight change! This one was performed, it was a much lesser role I got that time, just due to time commitments. I knew I couldn't take on a big part. Not saying I would have definitely got it, but that was performed in the Quadrangle, just here, behind King's College.
JC Oh, an outdoor one.
RS With the sort of Apple blossom tree beside us, it was very picturesque. Massive audiences for that one, very successful, and it was really good fun as well, and obviously seeing people again, and some new faces as well. Some of them I still see to this day. The only other society I got involved with was squash. I played squash a couple of times a week, but the squash club at that time didn't have many members, so I didn't really see that many people. It was usually me and one friend went down and played away. Battered the ball about for a while if the court was free, but that was about it. But as you rightly say, as time goes on in the medical course your time is just too precious. I did want to get involved again in another drama, but at the time, just for instance, at the time they were auditioning, I was in Inverness, as I got posted up there. Just things like that got in the way, and I realised that I wouldn't have the free time, and I would probably be placed somewhere else at important times. So that had to go by the wayside.
JC You were never pulled indirectly, I mean your main interests were sport and theatre. You weren't pulled towards student politics or representation, or anything like that at all?
RS No, not all, not really.
JC Traditionally, the Medics used to run all those things, but that was a long time ago!
RS That was a long time ago. I think Medics feel quite segregated from the rest of the University. being at Foresterhill. I did slightly get involved, because I wrote a few letters to the SRC Chairman, about issues up at the hospital. Never acted upon, but it didn't really matter I suppose.
JC Fell into his waste-paper basket!
RS Something like that! I think because 1st year medics are on the campus here. They are up at Marischal College as well, but from 2nd year you are up at Foresterhill, and at first when you try and keep in touch with the non-medic friends, you keep up to date with what is going on in the campus, but slowly and slowly you just get segregated, and it is it's own campus up there. That is why I think Medics have their own little world, because they just get involved so much up there, and we will pick up a copy of the Gaudie, and read things, and just go "that has no relevance to me". And it is a shame, because I think people forget, I mean, it is beautiful down here on campus. It would be months between me coming down here, and just walking around the quadrangle, you know, and you just suddenly realise it is such a beautiful university, and you get to see very little of it. It is sad, but that's the way it goes.
JC What are the facilities like at Foresterhill for students then? You have your own branch of the University Library for a start.
RS We do and it is good. I mean it's pretty good. The Library is good. Other facilities are few and far between.
JC What about eating, for example, do you eat in the hospital?
RS We have to use the hospital canteen.
JC Is that just open to everybody?
RS That is open to everyone. I mean, one thing, I mean a bug-bear, that I think that we all have, is that there is no student discount. Which is something that we are used to. We just pay staff prices. There is a coffee room, which is small, and there is one-tenth of the University population up there, there is 1000 students, and there is not a lot of provision, but I mean that is something that has been said over and over again, but I think people have just come to accept. We have a lot of computers up there, and we have the coffee room. We used to have a pool-table, but it has disappeared! Don' know where to. So I think people just tend not to think of the hospital as somewhere where students would relax. You would grab a coffee and that's about it.
JC And is the coffee room much used?
RS It is used, but then again it is also used by a lot of the sort of science staff, as it is just happens to be down the corridor from all the research labs. So you will find an entire corner taken up with scientists, and you can't find anywhere to sit down! So I think that is a small bug-bear, but I am sure it is never going to be resolved. We have just accepted our lot, because property up there is just so.. If we were to find somewhere bigger, it would be snatched up by a research institute, because they are always looking for space. We are quite far down the list. It is funny, the Nursing College recently became available, because they have all moved, and we thought we might get a bit of space in there, but no, it was grabbed by Cardiology, and you know Clinical Skills, and it was gone before we could even realised what was going on, but that is just the way it is going to be.
JC Tell me a bit about the course, how you have experienced it. You were one of those who came in with the integrated curriculum, I assume. We were already into that when you started.
RS I think we were the second year to have that.
JC Has that worked well for you?
RS Yes. Obviously I haven't experienced anything else.
JC But you have enjoyed what you have or found.
RS Yes. I think certainly confidence wise the integrated course basically was to get you into the wards early and certainly my confidence has come on a lot from that. Be it only that we were in for only a couple of hours a week in 2nd year. I remember the fear of going onto the wards and we were all a big gaggle of about 10 students, and you could see the doctors raising their eyebrows when we came onto the ward. You are sent off to speak to a patient, and there are about 4 or 5 of us together, and we are all whispering questions to each other, but that is the way you have to start to gain confidence. About 3rd year you are going doing it by yourself. Taking patient histories and the only way you do learn is by repeating so often that you know of the top of your head what the next question is to ask. So hopefully by now I think all of us are pretty fluent at getting the history, getting the story out of the patient. I think the course works well and has certainly been applauded. It has gained a lot of recognition.
JC Yes I think Aberdeen was the first Scottish university to go in for this. Possibly simultaneously with Dundee.
RS Yes. It was a bit of a jump, but it has worked. I think Edinburgh is still sticking to the old course.
JC I believe so - the pre-clinical, clinical divide.
RS But they have a lot of tradition, and they like to stick to it down there. So I don't know.
JC St. Andrews similarly has to do that, because it's got no teaching hospital.
RS That's right cause they move to Manchester. So certainly I have asked doctors about this when they get their junior doctors in and they say they can actually tell which university they have gone to, because the Edinburgh students will know, have the book knowledge, you know, will have every minute detail about disease, but sometimes are a bit - not fantastic on their clinical skills. Whereas the Aberdeen students are a bit more up on their clinical skills, but maybe their knowledge is a bit shaky.
JC Yes. I wondered what had to be sacrificed, as it were, to have such patient contact so early.
RS I think the one thing people have always highlighted, is Anatomy. Maybe other people have said this to you, but I think it has been sacrificed a lot. Much to the disappointment of the surgeons. They always criticise us. Certainly in first year we got a couple of hours a week of anatomy on the cadavers.
JC Where as it used to be a huge amount.
RS Oh it used to be a phenomenal amount
JC Virtually the whole of first year.
RS Yeah, yeah, and it is a difficult subject. You know, you are just learning, learning. What you know is by memory. You are learning by rote, and at that time, you wonder what the point is, because in the first few years you are learning a lot about physiology, and potassium balances and things and anatomy doesn't come into it, and it's not until you are suddenly thrust into an operating theatre and a surgeon points to a vein and says "What's that?", and you go, gasp, it's 2 years since I did this ! Suddenly it comes home to you. So I think they had to sacrifice, that was certainly one area they had to sacrifice. They have also built up communication skills. That is a huge thing that has come in.
JC That is terribly important
RS It is terribly important, and I think probably had to do with the changing view of doctors and the press, because they are getting at lot of …..
JC Lot of stick,
RS Yes a lot of stick at the moment. And from being poor communicators and not explaining things to patients, for not saying sorry, which you know is fundamental if a mistake is made. So it is a huge part of our course now, Communication Skills, and it is actually part of our finals. We sat last week. There was virtually three sort of stations, we do short stations, where we see patients, or actors, and you are just given a scenario and you have to explain, to the best of your ability, like I have to tell a patient they have cancer, or something, or bad news, things like that.
JC So you are trained and tested.?
RS You are trained and tested. There is sort of guidelines set out on how we approach and how you would deal with these sort of things, and if you fail that you can fail the entire medical course. You have to pass it. A lot of strength placed on it.
JC And that is an enormous change.
RS Yes it is an enormous change, but I think it is probably for the good. I think it had to be done. It sort of went hand in hand with ethics. We are getting a lot of ethics teaching now. We have to do a, what we call a special study module, which is 4 weeks, of sort of an investigation and a huge report on an ethical issue, and we all have to do that.
JC What did you do?
RS A very good question, if I can remember! I think I did mine on organ donation at the time. Which is, we have a very eminent surgeon in Aberdeen, who is quite strong on organ donation, so. .
JC Who is that?
RS You have just asked, and I can't remember! His name has popped out of my head!.
JC I don't know many medics so I probably wouldn't know him anyway.
RS That's terrible. I was working with him just a couple of months, and his name has just gone.
JC He is strong in what sense. He believes that people should opt out rather than opting in to organ donation?
RS Yes, That is exactly it.
JC Which I think is terribly sensible.
RS He is actually Norwegian, and in Norway that' s the way they do it, and he is always in the papers actually..
JC It is not Eremin is it? Or has he moved on?
RS Sorry who?
JC Eremin.
RS Yes. It is - what is his first name?
JC Can't remember his first name. Yes. Okay, that 's the guy. Used to live down in the Chanonry.
RS So, yes, I did an essay on that and had to do presentations and things. So that's another area that has grown with within the medical course.
JC Interesting. And you have, I understand, a certain amount of choice now two options you can choose.
RS Yes. There are a few options you can choose.
JC How early does that come into the course?
RS Well with these special study modules, these are throughout the University course, you usually do one a year.
JC One a year.
RS And it is 4 weeks of you know, looking into a subject, and from first year you are doing one on maybe Physiology, and then as I say you do an Ethics one, that is in the fourth year, and you do, you can do them on medications, drugs, whatever. I actually did one on the History of Medicine, one year. So that sort of degree of choice comes in early.
JC Who did the History of Medicine with you? Was it Dr. Smith, the Wellcome Fellow?
RS It was, yes. I think he does most of that. Then sort of later on, as you get sort of to 4th year, you get to choose where, because everyone has to go to Inverness, you get to choose what you do up there. What surgery, what medicine, and that sort of leans towards what you find interesting in the first few years. Some people don't get their choices. I was lucky I got mine.
JC What were you your choices?
RS I got Renal Medicine, Vascular Surgery, which I enjoyed.
JC I am often told that Inverness is a good experience because it is a smaller hospital.
RS It is. I mean, dare I say it! There are a lot of egos floating about in a teaching hospital. There are a lot of people with big ideas, who will brush you aside. There a lot of really nice people as well, obviously, but Aberdeen is so used to having students. As I say they have got upwards of 1000 coming through the hospital that you can go onto a ward and you've - and I know why it happens - you are simply another student. You can became nameless, faceless, you just get them through. Up in Inverness I remember walking in on my first day and a nurse just said "Good morning" to me, and I was like - you don't know me! Why are you saying good morning! - I just thought it was a friendlier atmosphere. There is so much fewer students up there. You get to do a lot more. You get more hands-on. A lot more one-to-one teaching, even tutoring. They will take you through clinical procedures, simple things like taking blood, putting in a line..
JC Because they have got more time?
RS Because they have got more time, and you feel that you can approach them and say look I have never done this, can I do this? And they say - Yes, just give me a minute, I will finish this. You get a lot more involved, you know, you could be helping out in a ward round a lot more. So it is a really good experience, and also the social scene up there is quite good, because it is almost like going back to halls again, because everyone is living in student, or doctor's accommodation. Certainly as you say, and I did an Intercalated degree, and the first time I went up to Inverness was when I rejoined Medicine, and it was a new year, I didn't know anyone, and it was a fantastic way of getting to know people, as you are just thrown together. You are on the wards with new people, you go out together. So that was a super, super time to meet people. It was really good.
JC What did you do in your Intercalated Degree?
RS I did Pathology. To do with Athro-sclerosis, a sort of heart disease essentially. It was definitely a positive experience, and I am glad I did it. It was actually a lot of fun at times. It was a break from medicine at the end of 3rd year, which by that point was becoming difficult. It was almost non-stop almost. To keep up the momentum… I am not saying I wasn't wanting to do medicine, I was merely getting tired of it, it is a long slog, and I thought this would be a good break, and it was. You are with a class of 30 people again. It may sound petty, but I didn't have to wear a shirt and tie every day! It was just like being a real student, where you could come in wearing jeans and a T-shirt, and back to lectures again. It was really good, and then I got in to… you do your own research project for this, the latter half of it, and it's something I think that few people get to experience, where you have your own direction of study, you know what you want to do, and it may sound dull that you are looking for a little change of colour in a test-tube, but if it's your results, you want that to happen, and you can get so involved in it. I directed my own timetable. I knew that I had to be in by at least 9.00 am., otherwise I wasn't going to get away by 6.00 pm, so I knew I had to direct my own timetable. I had to know when to start my write up. It teaches you a lot about study, and reading a lot of papers, and knowing which ones are good and which ones are bad, and getting rid, you know, working efficiently.
JC So it will be very good for you professionally.
RS Certainly. It has helped me since I have come back to Medicine, it really has, and I think a lot of people can tell who has done a BSc. because you do have this, you know the timetable in your head, rather than it having been laid out on a piece of paper by someone else. You know what has to be done. It certainly helped. I am not going to lie and say it was all fun and games, towards the end it was, when the thesis was due, the last couple of weeks were nightmarish! Compounded by the fact that my supervisor unfortunately went off ill in the last week. He never actually read my thesis before I handed it in. I did alright, I got a 2.i, so I am happy enough that I got through that, but I think it was a positive experience and I am glad I did it.
JC What proportion of medical students do it, and is it selective, or do you just volunteer?
RS Around about 30 will do it, that is out of about 170 - 180 in a class.
JC Quite a small proportion.
RS Yes. Quite a small proportion. You volunteer to do it. They push you quite a lot in Aberdeen. They are quite proud of the fact that they do it, and basically there is a day when all the stalls are set out by all the different departments and they say - these are all the different areas we are interested in, you could get involved in this, these are our projects. You then list what ones you would like to do, and it's all down to interviews and it actually comes down a bit to your exam marks as well, in past exams, and the only criteria once you have selected, is that you have to pass your next set of medical exams, because it is all done before your 3rd year finals. Once that is done, you are into the course. I have to say one reason for doing it, was probably to get another summer holiday, because at that point in the Medical curriculum you only get 2 weeks in the summer, so you just keep going and if you do a BSc. you get 2 months! So I am quite happy to say that is one of the reasons, because it's a good opportunity to get another holiday.
JC And was it a holiday, or were you depending on holidays to make money?
RS It was a holiday. I have been fortunate. Well I say fortunate, being a medic you can go to the bank and say - "I am going to be a doctor in a few years" and they give you lots of money! Which, honestly, I will have to pay back.
JC So you haven't had a financial struggle?
RS No. no not a struggle. Obviously I have a lot of debt to pay off, but I know, and that is one security, is that I am going into a well paid job, and I am going into it in August, so I know I can start paying back. It was actually my grandmother who gave me the best advice, which was, use the time while you have it, and use the money if they are going to give it to you. You always know you are going to be able to pay it back. So I have done a fair bit of travelling whilst at the University.
JC Could I tactlessly ask or ?
RS Certainly
JC About how much debt you are graduating with ?
RS Probably just over £20,000.
JC And you reckon you will pay that off in what ?
RS I have no idea! I know I start paying off next April, I think, and it is going to be upward of £300 - £400 a month. That is a combination of student loans and bank loans. So I honestly don't know how long it is going to be. It's going to be a fair few years, but I think if I was to get there with maybe £15,000 debt and then regret never having done the stuff I've done, you know, I would think on the grand scheme of things that would have been very little.
JC Sounds like a sensible granny!
RS Certainly is.
JC So for your elective you went to Canada, did you?
RS Yes. I did. Just back from there. Somewhere I always wanted to go. I don't know why. Probably just from other people telling me about it, and I do love the outdoors, the wilderness, and got into canoeing quite a bit at school, I don't do it anymore. I would have loved to have done that, but out in Canada I had to do a lot of work, so I didn't get a lot of chance to see the surrounding area, but I enjoyed it immensely. It was a lot of fun.
JC Where were you working?
RS In a town called Hamilton, which is just about an hour's drive south-west of Toronto. It is sort of a steel town, a bit of an industrial town, but I got out of Toronto, got to Niagara Falls, and round that area, and everyone over there is lovely, really nice. It was also good to see how a different system works. I was always comparing how they work, and I am not going to say they were better or worse. They have their pros and cons just as we do. As is always stated. Certainly the doctors earn a lot more money out there, but that's not why we get into it.
JC Why did you get into it as a matter of fact? I have never asked you that.
RS Why did I get into it? This is a question I asked 6 years ago, at the interview! Why did I get into it? I wouldn't like to say anything corny like I wanted to help people. I think. .
JC But you obviously do!
RS I think it is probably back there in my mind. I wouldn't say it was foremost, at the time, at school, I loved Biology and I loved Human Biology. I was really enjoyed it, and I think that was where I came from. I thought I really enjoy this and the combination of factors that, you know, I can use this to help people, I could put this to some use. I am not going to say it was big calling. It kind of was a late decision. I did toy with other things, certainly Forensic Medicine was one of them and Bio-Medical Sciences was something, so I knew I was going into that area. I remember it was kind of a snap, just one day I thought, let's go for it. I'll put it down. Probably not the way that most medical schools would like their students to choose. I think they would like to think it was a calling from a young age, but that was the way it happened and it has worked out for me.
JC And have you thought forward as to what kind of medicine you will be practising in the future, once you have done your housemanship in Perth?
RS Yes a sort of a process of elimination…
JC So you were beginning to tell me about what kind of medicine you might want to...
RS Well I know I am not going to go into surgery, so I have kind of narrowed it down to a hospital based physician, or GP, and I think the hospital based physician is the more likely, at the moment, but I think I will just see as the years go by what other factors come into it. Whether I have a family, and things like that, so it will just depend as time goes on.
JC And thinking back on your 6 years, can you identify particular people who have influenced you through the course. Particular teachers, or have there just been so many ?
RS There have been. It is strange because, some of my friends will say "Remember Dr. so and so, he gave us that lecture on, you know, renal disease". I have no idea who they are talking about! There are a few that stand out, mostly from 1st year. Dr. Johnston is one, he is a pathologist, who is an excellent lecturer. He did a lot of anatomy in 1st year, and sort of has kept up with the student body throughout and he always helps out. He has been our Medical Society President in the past. Always very helpful, always very approachable, and the Medical Revue, which is a show we put on every year, he loves it. Always gets involved. So I think he is one that stands out and he often stops us in the corridor to talk about these things. I think they are well embedded in his memory. But as you say, it is mostly you see so many people, and so many people have an influence on you, but there are a few doctors who I have worked on wards with, maybe they have not taught me a lot, but I have seen them at work and how they do their job, and you think, if I was like him! If I was like, I will have achieved what I want to achieve. There are some good role models. You also learn from a few bad role models! There are a few about, and you see them and go - well I think I have learnt how NOT to do something.
JC Did you know many of the good ones, I won't ask you to comit slander by naming the bad ones.
RS There is a doctor called Dr. Kahn, who works in Renal Medicine, who struck me, and I am sure he doesn't know me, but I was only with him for a week, but who struck me as a very good clinician. A very good communicator. Just a brilliant clinician. Who seemed to get to the nub of things, and get rid of the dross round the outside. He was the one that stands out in my memory.
JC Interesting. In general what were relations between students and staff like, and did they change over the time as you got more senior? I mean were they always formal or was there a degree of informality?
RS I think there has always been a degree of informality. I think the formality comes from the student's side, certainly to begin with, because these are, they are seen as powerful people, consultants, and you are never sure how to approach them, when to approach them. Certainly, like I say, when you first go on the wards in 2nd year, you are very timid, even speaking to junior doctors is quite,. . oh what am I supposed to be doing! I think through the years as you do progress, the onus is that you are supposed to know more, therefore the doctors usually more relaxed and say come on you should know this, you should know that, you should do this. But then again it changes from doctor to doctor. So we want to be very formal.
JC Is it always Doctor so and so, or is it ever first names?
RS Never first names! Never first names.
JC That is part of the medical tradition?
RS That is just the way it is. There are a few doctors who I know, they are just known by their first names through the students, but you would never say that to their face. If you said such and such, they would say oh yes I know who you mean, but you would always call them by doctor, which is strange, just coming back from Canada, they use first names, all over the place. That was very difficult for me when I first went. They were just saying call me... My supervisor was Dr. Keyron, but his name was Clive and everyone called him Clive, but I just kept calling him Dr. Keyron. I couldn't get out of it. Another thing was I turned up in a shirt and tie in Canada, and no one wears shirts and ties. It's all maybe, you know, you will wear a short sleeved shirt, open-necked. All very casual, and I wore a shirt and tie the entire time I was there, just because that is what… I couldn't do it. Everyone was saying "You are from Britain, aren't you?" The thing is that would never be accepted over here. Never! You cannot even get on to the ward with. .If you went on with your top button open, that's immediately picked up. I have heard surgeons saying, you know, we are trying to be professional here, do your top button up before meeting any patients. It is such a dramatic difference.
JC It is interesting that they put such a huge emphasis on dress code.
RS Yes they do. The white coats has to be on and pressed, it has to be..okay there may be a few marks on it, but you don't want it to be too dirty. Yes, smart appearance is very highly regarded in Britain. Certainly hearing from my colleagues that have been to Australia, it is the same over there. It is very relaxed, the same as Canada, and it's all first names. So Britain seems to be the one that is sticking with its traditional roots.
JC Did you know any of your teachers socially? Did you ever go to the home of any of any of the staff?
RS No. I think a few people did. Certainly in the 5th year, you are on a ward for 7 weeks and you get to know the staff very well. Well actually, now that I think about it, after wards on a Friday sometimes, you would go down to the local pub for a few drinks, you know. But that was it.
JC But that would be the sort of whole team from the wards?
RS Yeah, yeah. Well a few of them anyway. Some would have to stay on and do the work. In 5th year you are usually the only student on the ward, of that level. There would be 4th years coming through, but the 5th years there every day, sort of 8am. - 6 pm. at Surgery, 9am. - 5 pm. Medicine, and that is a fantastic experience on its own, and certainly, like I was on vascular surgery, and I was able to work as a locum, sort of junior doctor, for 4 weeks.
JC That must have been good?
RS It is terrifying at first, because you have sat your written finals in 4th year, but you haven't done your clinical finals. Aberdeen is one of the few places that allows you to work, obviously heavily supervised, but it means that you run the ward round, you organise the investigations.
JC So you are in effect the Junior Doctor?
RS You are in fact. You can't sign off on medications, obviously, and you can't organise anything, like, to do with radiology, X-ray, CT scans, anything like that. Everything else you can do.
JC How close at hand is help?
RS Oh. very close! Very Close! No don't worry! There is always someone else on the ward, but also you have the bleeper numbers of everybody, and you will never have to deal with a medical emergency. If anything goes wrong, you are just looked over, and the more senior person is brought in. It is more the organisational things, and that is basically a junior doctor's job. There is a lot of paperwork, and a lot of organisation, and to get that experience in the final year before you start your job, is really brilliant. It really makes you more confident, going into the actual job. Also you get paid! Which is excellent. It is always a little bonus. You are doing essentially what you should be doing, but you get paid. So it was super.
JC Well it has been very interesting Richard. Is there anything that we haven't covered, that you would have expected us to, or which you would like to speak about.
RS No I don't think so. I think that is probably everything. Obviously I have been thinking about it, what with graduation coming up, but there were a few gaps you managed to fill in for me, but no I think you have a general idea. Overall it has been a good experience and I have enjoyed Aberdeen. I like it as a city and the University has been good. Mind you I am looking forwards to moving away as well. Starting somewhere new.
JC Of course. It is a big chunk of your life to give to one place, isn't it?
RS Indeed it is. It is 6 years, so it's longer than most people would spend at University. I think my parents are glad I am going to start earning something!
JC Well it has been lovely talking to you. Thank you very much indeed,
RS Thank you.
End of Interview
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